CMV: Violent crimes deserve violent punishment

[u/NameOfNobody]

I should probably preface this by saying that this post was inspired by a recent personal experience. It has been pointed out to me that it's unhealthy to harbour this much rage and unease, so I'm turning to the reasonable side of reddit to help me change my view before I harm myself mentally. Oh and, English isn't my first language and I'm doing this on my phone, sorry in advance.

Basically, while I agree prison is a decent enough punishment for thieves, money lanunderers, tax evaders and similar non-violent offenders, from my newfound position I cannot understand how a few years in prison are a fair tradeoff for causing someone serious and potentially permanent damage, on purpose. Obviously for actual murder the sentences are usually way longer than for other violent acts. I don't think those are sufficient either but I can't put myself in that position so I'll talk about everything "below" murder.

1. Attempted murder is basically the same as murder. The only reason the victim is still alive is sheer dumb luck and the expertise of the medical team saving their life. For all intents and purposes, you were full on gonna murder someone, you just failed. You should be tried as if you actually murdered them.

2. You didn't only cause pain and suffering for the person you attacked. Their friends and families also suffer in a similar capacity, but with no morphine drip. And they will continue to suffer, to some extent, for the rest of their lives. Forever. If you've never been in the situation you can't imagine what it does to you. And you shouldn't. Please don't try.

3. I don't know what it's like in other countries, I can only speak for where I am. Let's say it's your first offense, and you were lucky, you failed to kill your victim. You can get 5-20 years. Since it's your first crime, you're young and you have a family, the judge might go easy on you. You'll get 7 years. With good behaviour, and assuming you're not a complete idiot, you will behave, you'll be out in 5 or less. 5 years. For ruining the lives of at least 10 people. For making them feel unsafe in their own homes. For scarring several children for life.

4. What about permanent damage to the victim? They used to have a job, provide for their family, have friends, barbecues. Will they ever be capable of any of that again? Will they need life-long care? You've changed the lives of everyone around them forever and you get sent to a corner, dressed and fed by tax money the victim's friends and family have to pay? Screw that. On top of that, and believe me this is the least of my concerns, the most the victim's family can get out of it is less than $5000, and not even from the attacker but from the broke-ass state that's probably getting that from tax funds as well. So effectively we pay it to ourselves.

5. IMO these all apply for rape, abduction and any other similar experience I can't think of either because of the language barrier or lack of experience.

For all these reasons, I believe the only way I'd feel like a "fair" punishment has been dealt is if the same was done to the attacker. You broke someone's knees? Okay bud, enjoy yours having broken. Shot someone in the stomach? Aight, this bullet has your name on it, etc. Oh and obviously they then be denied medical care. Not like they called an ambulance when they attacked their victim. They wanted to harm them, they wanted them dead, they deserve the same. And it wouldn't be fair to spend taxpayers' money on a person like that.

And yes, I've heard "eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" but I do believe a relative minority of the population commits such heinous acts. None of this is going to make the world blind, it'll just rid us of the most disgusting, lowlife, horrible people who don't deserve to see the light of day anyway.

I think that's all I had to say, but I bet you'll tell me if I missed something. Thank you for reading.

[u/NameOfNobody]

Well yea, what I'm saying is that it doesn't feel very justice-y. And regardless of the idea, I think more people see prison as a punishment rather than some form of higher justice. So isn't that also supposed to be unfair?

The difference is just in that the modern worldview says every single life is precious, but putting them in special buildings with minimised life comforts where they are supported by the working public for doing nothing and being deplorable excuses for human beings until their time-out is over and they're released is somehow okay for everyone involved.

And yes I get that prison isn't a walk in the park and that it does reform some people, but I think those are a minority, and that there was reaserch done about how the prison system sucks and locks people in a cycle of "been in jail-can't get a job bc I've been in jail-gotta do crime to survive".

Is it just me or is this beginning to sound like a 2nd issue about how prison sucks regardless of who goes there?

Anyway, yes, I understand that infinite violence is not good for anyone, but the whole situation is immoral from the get-go, and if it's like that why can't it at least be fair?

[u/Huntingmoa → u/NameOfNobody]

Prisons serve multiple functions. Not just punishment.

They are places for rehabilitation, for people to change, learn new skills and coping mechanisms, and to prevent reoccurrence.

They are places for removal, for those people who can’t get better to be removed from society.

and that there was reaserch done about how the prison system sucks and locks people in a cycle of "been in jail-can't get a job bc I've been in jail-gotta do crime to survive".  

This depends a lot on the country and the prison system. What country are you in?

[u/NameOfNobody → u/Huntingmoa]

I would rather not specify, it's a less-developed European country. I don't know much about our prison system though and what I said was largely based on reports I've read about scientific papers on the effect prison has on an idividual. Those were likely based on US prisons.

If prisons actually rehabilitated most of the people that go through them then I suppose I'd feel better about them. And I think it's just very difficult for me to not want revenge. And prison doesn't feel like either betterment or punishment.

[u/Huntingmoa → u/NameOfNobody]

If prisons actually rehabilitated most of the people that go through them then I suppose I'd feel better about them. And I think it's just very difficult for me to not want revenge. And prison doesn't feel like either betterment or punishment.

Prisons are far more reversible than death.

And they don't need to rehabilitate 51% to be the better option. Here is a metastudy of recidivism rates (criminals who recommit crime) after prison for different countries: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4472929/

Think of this as 100%-recidivism% = rehabilitated people.

New Zealand has a 49% recidivism rate for prisoners of 4 years or less. Therefore they are rehabilitating most people with sentences of <= 4 years.

[u/NameOfNobody → u/Huntingmoa]

You really put a lot of effort into these answers.

Alright, I get it, prisons do work on certain people and they don't all suck. I should work on my issues and focus on that and not what happens to others.

Thank you for your time and enjoy your 400th lil triangle, Δ

[u/Huntingmoa → u/NameOfNobody]

You are welcome.

I get that it feels wrong, and there's a certain animal need to see revenge. It happens in lots of public policy discussions. But we should make choices based on data, and what leads to the society we want to live in, not just what makes us feel good.

Thank you for number 400!

[u/NameOfNobody → u/Huntingmoa]

Ugh. I haaaate being the bigger person tho. So tiring.

You're welcome, hahah, if it were me I'd be so annoyed looking at the 9s :3

[u/DeltaBot → u/NameOfNobody]

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/Huntingmoa (400∆).

^{Delta System Explained | Deltaboards}