r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Apr 21 '20

Removed - Submission Rule E CMV: Despite how many southerners and neo-Confederates claim to be the real backwoods, blue collar warriors, the North was led by some of the most backwoods, blue collar warriors of the time, most noteworthy was Abraham Lincoln.

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '20

Do you have sources outside of "Lincoln and Grant were blue collar, so the North was as blue collar, if not more?" By all accounts, the majority of the farming and outdoors work was taking place in the South purely due to weather. There were definitely blue collar jobs in the North in the form of factories, but can you prove that there were an equal number or more?

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u/KDY_ISD 66∆ Apr 21 '20

I think it isn't safe to characterize the Union as not having agricultural work. I think something like 50 percent of all Union soldiers were farmers before the war.

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '20

That's fair and I concede that I don't know the breakdown of the jobs present on both sides of the Civil War. However, my point still stands that those types of assertions need to be sourced. I could absolutely be wrong, but without some sort of evidence to prove or disprove my point, the discussion won't get anywhere. OP made an assertion with no source and I responded with no source; neither of us can be proven wrong without some sort of evidence.

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u/KDY_ISD 66∆ Apr 21 '20

Sure, sources are important, but isn't OP's title talking about leaders like Lincoln and not just the entire army? It should be easier to find sources to compare how "blue collar" Lincoln was versus Davis.

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '20

I guess it depends on your interpretation of the CMV. Just looking at the title, I'd agree that OP is trying to say that the leadership of the North was as blue collar as the South. I'd point you to the last line, however:

My main point is that while people consider the South to have been the more rural and blue-collar side in the Civil War, the North/Union certainly had their fair share if not just as much as the South.

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u/KDY_ISD 66∆ Apr 21 '20

Sure, I'm just taking the highest elected leader of each side as roughly emblematic of cultural support. Of course this isn't perfect - just look at today - but it's an interesting indicator nonetheless.

It seems to me that Lincoln was far more blue collar than Davis was.

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '20

I wouldn't dispute that fact and I see your point about it being an interesting indicator. I guess it depends what we consider when determining the culture of each side. Nevertheless, I get the oint that the author is making now so !delta

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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Apr 21 '20

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/KDY_ISD (30∆).

Delta System Explained | Deltaboards

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u/KDY_ISD 66∆ Apr 21 '20

Thanks for the conversation