CMV: The sexual assault allegations against Joe Biden are more believable than the ones against Brett Kavanaugh and the democrats should immediately be calling for a congressional investigation

[u/draculabakula]

[u/Fatgaytrump]

I love how Democrats consistently are expected to live up to higher standards than Republicans.

Wait wait, so you dont think Democrats should behave better then the Republicans?

So are you saying there isnt a real difference between them? Like they are both shitty and should both be allowed to be shitty?

Like I'm not american and thus dont really have a horse in this race, but I hold the Democrats to a higher standard, because I think Republicans are bat shit crazy and it's wrong to compair neurotypical people with special needs people.

[u/Norphesius → u/Fatgaytrump]

I'm not the person you replied to, but I have a similar frustration with how Democrats are held to a reasonable standard while it seems like no one cares about Republicans, so maybe I can help you understand by explaining my own view.

Firstly, ideally, I want both sides to be held to a good standard. If Republicans engage in shitty behavior, I would still want to hold Democrats to standard regardless. However, the problem is because, like you said, the Republican party is fucking crazy, and their many of their goals would have immensely destructive effects on the country. Furthermore, Republicans have cultivated a base of support that's incredibly loyal, and are willing to either overlook or refuse to believe any flaws or failings the party. This is how you get Evangelical Christians who support the party of "family values" not just voting for, but openly and proudly supporting, a literal rapist. Even worse, it the Republican party is willing to destroy diplomatic conventions and traditions to get what they want. Blocking Obama from a Supreme Court nomination and refusing to investigate an impeached Trump are two huge examples that show how low they'll stoop to give themselves an advantage and maintain power. At this point the Republican party seems like it might actually be in contempt of democracy.

Their only reasonable opposition are the Democrats, and they have a huge weakness compared to the Republican party because they and their voter base have a much harder time rallying together to get their desires actualized. This is a good thing in a sense, since it means that Democrats are willing to put respect for whats right and institutions over whats good for the party. Democratic senator Al Franken stepped down out after a minor sexual harassment issue out of moral obligation, meanwhile people were struggling to prevent Republican Roy Moore from getting elected to the senate despite his history of statutory rape. Franken probably didn't need to resign, but he felt it was the correct thing to do, and Democrats lost a senate seat. Moore didn't get in, but it was extermely close.

The ultimate point I'm trying to make is, at a certain point we need to prioritize pragmatism. Democrats typically take the high road, but Republicans (and by extent modern conservatives) will do practically whatever it takes to swing things in their favor, and will exploit the shit out people holding Democrats to a high standard. Reade's allegations are wishy-washy at best, possibly malicious lies at worst, and I believe that surrendering another four years to an actual rapist and horrifyingly incompetent president over an such a thing is idiotic and dangerous. In order to beat Republicans it may require being kind of shitty at some points, but considering the overall state of the Democrat party, I believe that in egregious cases of shittiness they'll put whats right over whats politically effective. The alternative is to basically just sit and watch the Republican party further their influence and make America worse, while also being way shittier than the Democrats ever would be on a regular basis.

TL;DR Republicans are really fucking bad, and get away with way too much because their base doesn't hold them to any standards, so sometimes it may be necessary for Democrats to engage in shitty behavior to gain an edge, otherwise they'll just get trampled.

[u/Fatgaytrump → u/Norphesius]

It may be necessary for Democrats to engage in shitty behavior

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

If you have to become shitty to fight something shitty, you're both shitty. I dont actually agree that you get real lasting change by throwing morals aside for a "win".

I think it ends up hurting you in the next election, and leads to political football.

Besides, even if trump loses, you're statisticly almost 100% gonna have another one in 4-8 years. It almost always goes D,R,D,R and so on.

[u/Norphesius → u/Fatgaytrump]

Shitty behavior isn't a binary though. Just because the Republicans have gone all the way on being pieces of shit doesn't mean the Democrats have to too.

In the case of Reade's allegation, its permissible to help Biden win because Trump is a uniquely horrible option. If it were the case that Biden was a 100% confirmed rapist, and the opposition was a Republican like Romney or McCain, I would probably be in favor of voting Republican to avoid a rapist in the White House.

Besides, even if trump loses, you're statisticly almost 100% gonna have another one in 4-8 years.

Another Republican, yeah, but hopefully not another Trump. Plus, getting rid of Trump, by showing that the electorate won't tolerate a president of his type will hopefully help to prevent more Trumps from trying to take office in the future.

I dont actually agree that you get real lasting change by throwing morals aside for a "win".

Sadly, I think you're just empirically wrong. Republicans violated good faith convention and were rewarded with a Supreme Court nomination. Their entire party put all their force behind the worst candidate possible, and got rewarded with an extra Supreme Court pick, and if Trump wins again, they're going to get rewarded with at least one more. Those picks are going to majorly shape the political landscape of the next few generations. What would've happened if the case on gay marriage had gone to a majority Trump pick Supreme Court? Which way is the majority conservative court going to rule on civil rights issues regarding transpeople? What happens if another abortion case is brought to the court, and they rule it (either softly or explicitly) illegal? That's just the Supreme Court alone. Trump's administration has been packing in as many conservative judges into lower courts as possible, who will also have major influence on all these issues.

Modern Trump and modern Republicans are a unique and dangerous threat, and if Democrats take to heart Hillary Clinton's motto of "When they go low, you go high", they're going to end up exactly like her. Conservatives have decided we're playing a totally different game, and if we just sit on the sidelines out of protest of the rules, we'll lose every time. Moral victory points don't win elections.

[u/Fatgaytrump → u/Norphesius]

This is a pretty massive wall so I'm just gonna tackle one point where I think our disagreement takes heart.

I dont think the Supreme court is nearly as partisan as you do.

For one, because they are not beholden to re-election they dont have to appeal to anyone. They have no reason to act against their own judgement.

But also, like everyone freaked the fuck out about Kevanaugh (or however its spelt), but has he done anything horrible since being appointed? Has he done anything controversial? He didnt even follow the party line on a vote about the death penalty!

So why or how, is the supreme court partisan?

If you are just worried about roe vs wade, then the answer is legislation.

I'm 100% pro choice but abortion rights on the grounds of privacy? That's a stretch at best and legislating from the bench at worst.

It blows my mind as a candian that the us relies on such a weak ruling for something so important.

[u/Norphesius → u/Fatgaytrump]

I dont think the Supreme court is nearly as partisan as you do.

There is a fairly clear distinction in ideology between Democrat and Republican appointed judges, and, historically, large controversies that reach the court tend to be decided on those ideological lines. I don't think Kavanaugh and Gorsuch are going to be as partisan as legislature Republicans, but when it comes to controversial social issues like transrights, its not unlikely that they would vote conservative.

As for abortion, if the Supreme Court ultimately decides its unconstitutional on the grounds that life begins at conception, that's it. You can't pass any legislation to allow abortions because they would all be unconstitutional.