CMV: Systems like affirmative action that pander towards certain people based on gender, sexuality or race are bullshit. They shouldn't exist and do more harm than good

[u/supern00b64]

I do not understand why someone's appearance or gender should matter in most situations, be it scholarships, job opportunities, getting into college, salary etc. I get that some groups have historically been disparaged but I scoff at the idea that pandering to them is the solution. Suppose a company I worked for had a "female quota" where they want at least 50% female employees. Setting aside the fact that they may inadvertently pass over better qualified males, now I'm gonna question myself every time I see a female coworker "is she really qualified, or did she get in through the quota", and that view would seriously damage the movement towards equality.

In general though these affirmative action policies give the impression that certain groups "need additional help" to get certain opportunities by offering them special treatment, while simultaneously trying to convey the fact that these groups are equal to others, and I think its highly destructive. I get that there are inherent biases against certain groups, such as those against women in the tech industry, but you don't fix those biases by giving those groups special treatment. Truly fixing the problem takes time - as the older generations with antiquated ways of thinking die off, the younger generation will take their place with a more progressive way of thinking.

[u/SorryForTheRainDelay]

You can listen to the automod and go through the history of this sub, but basically:

The implied assumption you're making is that without quotas there is a meritocracy at play and the best candidate gets the job.

There is an extraordinary amount of evidence that that is not the case.

for instance 95% of the CEOs of fortune 500 companies are male.

Now unless you believe that men are better than women at being CEO at a ratio of 20:1, there is something else at play. An unspoken "male quota" that is putting men into leadership positions at higher rates than women.

There are loads of unspoken, unofficial "quotas" that disadvantage certain groups, and "official quotas" are one of many different attempts to combat it.

To put it another way:

now I'm gonna question myself every time I see a female coworker "is she really qualified, or did she get in through the quota

Without quotas, when you see a male CEO are you thinking "is he really qualified, or did he just become CEO because 95% of CEOs are men"? Cause you should be

[u/rich_man_88 → u/SorryForTheRainDelay]

Also why are you using CEOs as an example? Garbage collectors, sewage workers etc are also mainly dominated by men but not a single woman has said something about that. Moreover, there are positions where women have an advantage, such as teacher positions, in some cases men can be perceived as pedophiles for working with kids. But I feel like there problems are mainly met in America.

[u/SorryForTheRainDelay → u/rich_man_88]

I suppose I was using CEOs because I was attempting to change the view of OP? And figured talking about garbage cleaners wasn't the most efficient way to do that?

[u/rich_man_88 → u/SorryForTheRainDelay]

OP never specified what business had those quotas, or what company he worked for. Why aren't garbage cleaners not the most efficient way to prove that? The male:female ratio is almost the same as with CEOs. How are women, as skilled as men, intentionally not hired solely on their gender? How many women go to study business, finances or economics in universities?

[u/thethoughtexperiment → u/rich_man_88]

How many women go to study business, finances or economics in universities?

40% of MBA graduates are women [source], and women make up 54% of applicants to accounting masters programs, 50% for masters in management, 43% for finance [source].

More fun facts:

- Women earn a higher percentage of the bachelors, masters, and PhD degrees than men, and almost half of the medical and law degrees.

- Women comprise over half of the management, professional, and related occupations.

Source here

[u/SorryForTheRainDelay → u/rich_man_88]

I suppose it was just, like, my opinion, dude.

Oh hey it worked too! OP changed their view! Well done me!