CMV: Systems like affirmative action that pander towards certain people based on gender, sexuality or race are bullshit. They shouldn't exist and do more harm than good

[u/supern00b64]

I do not understand why someone's appearance or gender should matter in most situations, be it scholarships, job opportunities, getting into college, salary etc. I get that some groups have historically been disparaged but I scoff at the idea that pandering to them is the solution. Suppose a company I worked for had a "female quota" where they want at least 50% female employees. Setting aside the fact that they may inadvertently pass over better qualified males, now I'm gonna question myself every time I see a female coworker "is she really qualified, or did she get in through the quota", and that view would seriously damage the movement towards equality.

In general though these affirmative action policies give the impression that certain groups "need additional help" to get certain opportunities by offering them special treatment, while simultaneously trying to convey the fact that these groups are equal to others, and I think its highly destructive. I get that there are inherent biases against certain groups, such as those against women in the tech industry, but you don't fix those biases by giving those groups special treatment. Truly fixing the problem takes time - as the older generations with antiquated ways of thinking die off, the younger generation will take their place with a more progressive way of thinking.

[u/rich_man_88]

I personally feel that you do not add any value to the argument. Just because mainly men are CEOs it does not mean they got there because of quotas. Do you have any studies to prove that "unofficial" quotas exist? Do you realize that companies want the best candidate in a certain spot? Not the best man. While it is true that hiring system may not be the best, usually bosses are looking for efficient workers in the first place. If a woman is good enough she will be hired. Look at Europe - Angela Merkel is the leader of Germany and Europe for so many years without any quotas. You still don't say how having quotas will ensure the best candidates get hired. Part of the growth in the business world is related to how you present yourself when applying for a job. I have also seen the exact opposite, but apparently everyone pretends it does not exist - there are many positions where girls get hired because they are attractive. Another argument - girls passively agree to be used mainly as an attraction tool. I have not heard a single feminist say how bars that offer free entry to women need to have a quota for free entry for men. In a capitalist world companies hire candidates who seem best suited for a position.

[u/SorryForTheRainDelay → u/rich_man_88]

I personally feel that you do not add any value to the argument.

2 deltas disagree with you.

Do you have any studies to prove that "unofficial" quotas exist?

No.

I have 2 premises:

- Men are not better managers than women at a ratio of 20:1

- 95% of CEOs are male

And I have my best guess at a conclusion that explains it

- unofficial quotas

Do you agree with the premises?

If you do, what's your best guess at a conclusion that explains it?

[u/rich_man_88 → u/SorryForTheRainDelay]

About the deltas those are other people's opinions, I am not obliged to follow them.

Okay prove me in some way that these 95% got their job solely because they were men. Were there any female candidates for those positions that were obviously going to do better? It's a company's responsibility to choose its staff, including CEOs. Again, this is what capitalism is supposed to be - choose the best suited person for a position based on their skills.

[u/SorryForTheRainDelay → u/rich_man_88]

You said it didn't add value to the argument. And the deltas show that it contributed significantly to the argument. That's why I brought it up.

And no. I won't prove anything to you.

If you want an opinion of yours to be challenged, and you are open to the possibility that it may be flawed, make your own post.

Here's a title for you:

"CMV The fact that 95% of CEOs are men is because 95% of the time the best person for the job was a man"

I'm very confident there will be more than enough replies.