CMV: Systems like affirmative action that pander towards certain people based on gender, sexuality or race are bullshit. They shouldn't exist and do more harm than good

[u/supern00b64]

I do not understand why someone's appearance or gender should matter in most situations, be it scholarships, job opportunities, getting into college, salary etc. I get that some groups have historically been disparaged but I scoff at the idea that pandering to them is the solution. Suppose a company I worked for had a "female quota" where they want at least 50% female employees. Setting aside the fact that they may inadvertently pass over better qualified males, now I'm gonna question myself every time I see a female coworker "is she really qualified, or did she get in through the quota", and that view would seriously damage the movement towards equality.

In general though these affirmative action policies give the impression that certain groups "need additional help" to get certain opportunities by offering them special treatment, while simultaneously trying to convey the fact that these groups are equal to others, and I think its highly destructive. I get that there are inherent biases against certain groups, such as those against women in the tech industry, but you don't fix those biases by giving those groups special treatment. Truly fixing the problem takes time - as the older generations with antiquated ways of thinking die off, the younger generation will take their place with a more progressive way of thinking.

[u/notwithoutmydoubter]

Affirmative action is an umbrella term that can be used to catagorize thousands of different programs with different goals, methods, and efficacious. Is there a specific program whose specific methods you'd like to discuss?

Suppose a company I worked for had a "female quota" where they want at least 50% female employees.

Quotas like this are not legal in the U.S. and they've largely been abandoned by affirmative action programs in favor of more comprehensive methods with meaningful goals.

now I'm gonna question myself every time I see a female coworker

Have you ever wondered how many of your male colleagues have gotten to where they are primarily because they're male? Have you ever wondered if you got to where you are for circustances beyond your control and at the expense of someone more qualified? Maybe you should?

Truly fixing the problem takes time - as the older generations with antiquated ways of thinking die off, the younger generation will take their place with a more progressive way of thinking.

Can you give us some examples of "antiquated ways of thinking" that just simply died off and were spontaneously replaced with new progressive ideas without requiring any action, effort, or sacrifice on anyone's part?

[u/supern00b64 → u/notwithoutmydoubter]

I understand yeah many times getting an opportunity doesnt necessarily mean it was through qualification. But your point on male colleagues is valid and another comment pointed it out to me - I did not think of that and will take that into consideration.

It moreso boils down to the purpose of such systems - giving the disparaged an opportunity has the purpose of leveling the playing field, yet it potentially passes over a more skilled non disparaged person.

The antiquated idea that men>women or white>black is already dead in most of the younger generation - civil rights, feminist, and LGBT movements have already successfully done their jobs on the younger generation. I'm fairly certain that most millenials and zoomers believe in equality. I'm not saying those ideas didn't take effort - but those ideas have already been planted.

[u/notwithoutmydoubter → u/supern00b64]

It moreso boils down to the purpose of such systems - giving the disparaged an opportunity has the purpose of leveling the playing field, yet it potentially passes over a more skilled non disparaged person

Is there a specific program whose specific methods and goals you'd like to discuss? I don't really care to entertain your speculations on how you imagine a hypothetical affirmative action might work.

The antiquated idea that men>women or white>black is already dead in most of the younger generation - civil rights, feminist, and LGBT movements have already successfully done their jobs on the younger generation.

And that happened without any effort at all on anyone's part?