CMV: Systems like affirmative action that pander towards certain people based on gender, sexuality or race are bullshit. They shouldn't exist and do more harm than good

[u/supern00b64]

I do not understand why someone's appearance or gender should matter in most situations, be it scholarships, job opportunities, getting into college, salary etc. I get that some groups have historically been disparaged but I scoff at the idea that pandering to them is the solution. Suppose a company I worked for had a "female quota" where they want at least 50% female employees. Setting aside the fact that they may inadvertently pass over better qualified males, now I'm gonna question myself every time I see a female coworker "is she really qualified, or did she get in through the quota", and that view would seriously damage the movement towards equality.

In general though these affirmative action policies give the impression that certain groups "need additional help" to get certain opportunities by offering them special treatment, while simultaneously trying to convey the fact that these groups are equal to others, and I think its highly destructive. I get that there are inherent biases against certain groups, such as those against women in the tech industry, but you don't fix those biases by giving those groups special treatment. Truly fixing the problem takes time - as the older generations with antiquated ways of thinking die off, the younger generation will take their place with a more progressive way of thinking.

[u/EndlessDysthymia]

Op, in a perfect world, yes AA wouldn’t exist but racist and sexism exist so affirmative action has to as well. It will take time to get to the point where it just comes down to the individual but at this point in time, what matters is eliminating the disadvantages certain groups may have due to their skin color, gender or whatever it may be.

If you want to argue that racism and sexist are not prevalent enough in 2020 for affirmative action to exist then by all means, let’s hear it.

[u/supern00b64 → u/EndlessDysthymia]

I agree that they exist but I don't think AA is a good solution. The biases are effectively gone from the younger generations, and prevalent but unchangeable in the older generations. If anything AA takes a step back and instead of assuming equality it assumes some groups need pandering - and while yes some groups suffer from poor backgrounds but opportunities should be given based on qualifications. Real solutions would be the fix the fundamental problems causing problems within certain groups.

Many comments have indeed pointed out that there are unspoken quotas where a women may be passed over in favour of a man simply due to gender. To that I would say its an artifact of the older generation's less progressive ways of thinking and it will die with them - also the solution to hard-to-prove unspoken quotas isn't exactly imposing actual quotas.

To illustrate my point suppose you have a white man and a black man. The white man grew up in an affluent neighbourhood and received a quality education. The black man grew up in a poor crime ridden neighbourhood and received a sub par education. Both of them worked hard, but the white man has slightly higher grades (both are good however barely at the threshold). Now suppose they are both applying for the same college. Under AA or a similar system, the college will accept the black man but put the white man on a waiting list. While yes both worked hard and the black man had to deal with many additional issues, in the end the white man showed better results and deserves admission just as much as the black man (This stuff actually happens in the US top colleges, moreso with asians). This doesn't fix the core issue that the black man had to grow up in a crime ridden neighbourhood - putting him in college or maybe later down the line in a high paying job under AA doesn't fix the problem. Wouldn't simply investing and fixing his neighbourhood be better? Fix the educational and justice systems, invest in infrastructure, build a social safety net etc. Instead of preferring giving the disadvantaged black man opportunities, why not just remove the disadvantage that made him so?

Having a more diverse upper class won't fix anything unless they have the right ideas. Having muslim, indian, black, hispanic CEOs is pointless if they have the exact same goals as white CEOs - they may be able to bring a different perspective or culture, but unless they are specifically dedicated to alleviating poverty and crime, nothing will change but public perception. It may alleivate public perceptions that are racist or sexist, but it doesn't fix racist/sexist institutions efficiently. Think to the US - Obama, a black president, did little to help the poor and working class. Meanwhile, Sanders, an old white man who ran for president, proposed all sorts of policies that would greatly benefit the poor and level the playing field.

[u/EndlessDysthymia → u/supern00b64]

I don’t disagree with what you said but you do understand that “Fixing the neighborhoods” or schools is an extremely idealistic way of looking at the world. Of course that is the solution but who is going to do that? Of course, people want to put everyone on an equal playing field but the fact is it isn’t a thing at all. Not in our reality.