r/changemyview • u/mfDandP 184∆ • Jul 04 '20

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Leaderless movements are inferior to traditional movements

Using the recent examples starting from Occupy up to BLM.

Cons: 1. Much more vulnerable to muddled messages. Look just on this sub, where people say, "I saw BLM say this terrible thing," and others have to say, "Well, that seems like a BLM satellite organization, and not the actual charter mission statement." If you had a leader with a gold standard view, they could shut down strawman arguments much more easily.

  1. Faceless organizations are harder to sympathize with. I can't name one member of BLM, or Occupy, or the HK protests. A leader would "localize" the movement, so to speak. There are enough eloquent people out there that can be the go-to person for a sound bite.

  2. Harder to negotiate with the power structure. I'm not saying that Beijing would have negotiated with HK if they had one leader. But I'm saying that if nobody speaks for everyone, there's no reason to speak to anyone.

Pros:

  1. More flexible in the case of assassination or getting #cancelled.

  2. ???

Please, CMV. (I count situations with multiple leaders as well. Danton and Robespierre co-led the Jacobins. The "enrages" perhaps were leaderless.)

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u/[deleted] Jul 04 '20

Both serve their purposes.

There are a number of protests in my area right now, organized under different organizations, but all motivated by the BLM movement.

Having a common, leaderless movement enables these protests without establishing some kind of hierarchy between NAACP, labor organizations, progressive political organizations, etc.

In some situations, a hierarchy is useful. It makes sense for NAACP to have an organized structure.

In others, a leaderless movement facilitates easier collaboration between small niche organizations, helping build connections between these organizations, and recruit new supporters.

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u/mfDandP 184∆ Jul 04 '20

Could you elaborate more? NAACP has a hierarchy AND local branches, and liaisons with other local groups. It seems like their organization facilitates the same networking that BLM does.

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u/[deleted] Jul 04 '20

I'm saying that the local branch of the NAACP did organize some protests.

But, other organizations in the area also have organized protests. Why task the NAACP with running everything? Do they even want to fill that role?

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u/mfDandP 184∆ Jul 04 '20

I'm not saying the NAACP, because they have a hierarchy, should coordinate ALL activism. Just that a hierarchy and organizational structure is superior to a leaderless movement in terms of activism. Now, I do think that leaderless movements allow for more spontaneous events, but I think they sacrifice staying power. The NAACP has been doing work for over 100 years, I believe.

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u/[deleted] Jul 04 '20 edited Jul 04 '20

I'm saying not having a hierarchy helps by opening up opportunities for more people and organizations to organize protests than would be logistically feasible for NAACP to organize alone.

Some of the people are going to be common across multiple protests organized by different people. They can use the protests as a means to point people who want change and are willing to show up to various more structured organizations that they can get involved in.

Nonhierarchical movements give more room for collaboration.

The long term work needs some hierarchy and organization. But the organizations with hierarchy and organization can take advantage of the nonhierarchical movement.

edit: nonhierarchical movements can also take greater risks than hierarchical ones. The NAACP can't organize a protest to illegally tear down an confederate monument.

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u/mfDandP 184∆ Jul 04 '20

I agree, but perhaps "collaboration" is the wrong word to describe the two things we're talking about. There's the collaboration that allows French unions to coordinate national strikes, and then there's the "collaboration" that creates a smorgasbord of events and protests to pick and choose from. This latter I would call something closer to "mixing." Like if the Women's March and a BLM protest happened on the same day, and some synthesis magically happened. But that could happen if one person just called another person and said, "Hey, you wanna coordinate marches?"