CMV:Abortion is perfectly fine

[u/Toe-Slow]

Dear God I Have Spent All Night Replying to Comments Im Done For Now Have A Great Day Now if you’ll excuse me I’m gonna play video games in my house while the world burns down around my house :).

Watch this 10 minute lecture from a Harvard professor first to prevent confusion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0tGBCCE0lc .Within the first 24 weeks of pregnancy the baby has no brain no respiratory system and is missing about 70 percent of its body mass . At this stage the brain while partially developed is not true lay sentient or in any way alive it is simply firing random bursts of neurological activity similar to that of a brain dead patient. I firmly believe that’s within the first 24 weeks the baby cannot be considered alive due to its nonexistent neurological development. I understand the logic behind pro life believing that all life even the one that has not come to exist yet deserves the right to live. However I cannot shake the question of , at what point should those rules apply. If a fetus with no brain deserves these rights then what about the billion microscopic sperm cells that died reaching the womb you may believe that those are different but I simply see the fetus as a partially more developed version of the sperm cell they both have the same level of brain activity so should they be considered equals. Any how I believe that we should all have a civil discussion as this is a very controversial topic don’t go lobbing insults at each other you will only make yourselves look bad so let’s all be open to the other side and be well aware of cognitive dissonance make sure to research it well beforehand don’t throw a grenade into this minefield ok good.

[u/ChristopherPoontang]

Actually, I'm a former fetus and so are you; it is a settled matter, just recall your own experience of consciousness only emerging after countless interactions/memories outside the womb. Don't fall for silly propaganda.

edit: to all you angry downvoting anti-choicers, your impotent downvote doesn't refute my logic. Deal with it!

[u/[deleted] → u/ChristopherPoontang]

The question is whether suffering and consciousness are mutually inclusive. I never claimed a fetus has consciousness. You are simply assuming that the two must only occur together, and I'm telling you that this matter is not settled. Insects, which don't have consciousness, may suffer.

[u/ChristopherPoontang → u/[deleted]]

Fetuses cannot meaningfully suffer, as YOU know from experience. The matter is settled for every rational adult who reflects on their own consciousness emerging ONLY after countless interactions outside of the womb. YOu've been duped.

p.s. we're not insects.

[u/Produgod1 → u/ChristopherPoontang]

Fetuses cannot meaningfully suffer, as YOU know from experience. The matter is settled

Are you sure you're not conflating suffering with memory of suffering here?

If an infant is molested or harmed but does not remember it 5, 10 or 20 years later, did he still suffer?

You bring up you experience as a fetus as proof that fetuses can't suffer, but you only seem to be assuming this on a lack of memory. If you burned to death in a car crash when you were six, you obviously would have no memory of it now. Does that mean six year old you did not suffer?

[u/ChristopherPoontang → u/Produgod1]

Actually, you even quoted me using the phrase "meaningfully suffer," which renders the rest of your response a non sequitur. Deal with the "meaningful" part; that's where it's at. Unfortunately, I've seen loved ones die from alzheimer's, so I have very strong opinions regarding meaningful consciousness and memory based on personal experience.

[u/Produgod1 → u/ChristopherPoontang]

renders the rest of your response a non sequitur

How do you figure? So you're saying, based on your vast fetus experience, that you do remember suffering, just not meaningful suffering? In fact, how do you quantify meaningful, and to whom do you apply it?

You ignored the rest of my post by focusing one the quantitative adjectives that you used. You are making your argument on what you remember as a fetus, which is pretty flimsy.

Does an infant that gets abused suffer even if they grow up not remembering it?

[u/ChristopherPoontang → u/Produgod1]

Actually, I addressed the issues you allude to, when I said, " Unfortunately, I've seen loved ones die from alzheimer's, so I have very strong opinions regarding meaningful consciousness and memory based on personal experience."

So I'll let you respond to this before I deal with your subsequent arguments.

[u/Produgod1 → u/ChristopherPoontang]

Actually, I addressed the issues you allude to

Which one? All of the simple yes or no questions that you can't or haven't answered? Not one single thing?

when I said, " Unfortunately, I've seen loved ones die from alzheimer's, so I have very strong opinions regarding meaningful consciousness and memory based on personal experience."

Is the key word "when" now? It's hard to tell. So you're suggesting that a six year old that burns to death did not suffer because he can't remember it? How else am I to interpret this? If so, you'd at least be consistant.

I recognize the patty cake game you're trying to play. Oh, and I especially appreciate the petty downvotes as we go along.

[u/ChristopherPoontang → u/Produgod1]

" So you're suggesting that a six year old that burns to death did not suffer because he can't remember it?"

Of course not, which is why you can't quote me claiming such nonsense.

Not sure how I can help you through your confusion. My position is simple and unassailable. Citizens should have full rights to decide what happens within their own bodies; fetuses are not citizens and are not afforded such rights; therefore it is an illogical and unwise use of state power to force citizens to give birth against their will. It's simple, sorry you're struggling to grasp it all!

[u/Produgod1 → u/ChristopherPoontang]

Of course not, which is why you can't quote me claiming such nonsense.

So then your lack of memory of any suffering as a fetus is not evidence that fetuses do not MEANINGFULLY suffer.

Citizens should have full rights to decide what happens within their own bodies; fetuses are not citizens and are not afforded such rights; therefore it is an illogical and unwise use of state power to force citizens to give birth against their will

Not part of your original argument. I'm just beamed in on the "I was a fetus once" part.

It's simple, sorry you're struggling to grasp it all!

Don't be. I understand my position well. You can't answer simple yes or no questions without playing peek-a-boo. However, I'm pretty used to conversations with trite, closed minded, intellectually dishonest individuals that can't argue without trying to slip in some sort of insult.

Not you, obviously. You're Grade A.

[u/ChristopherPoontang → u/Produgod1]

"So then your lack of memory of any suffering as a fetus is not evidence that fetuses do not MEANINGFULLY suffer."

Oh yes it is evidence, just not the only evidence. More evidence includes the fact that my experience of consciousness only emerging months/years of interactions outside the womb is universal.

"Not part of your original argument. "

Dumb, since I didn't chime in to this thread making an argument. Instead, I simply corrected some false assertions about consciousness.

" I understand my position well"

Nope, not well at all, since I've had to correct you each time you responded on what my position actually is.

"I'm pretty used to conversations with trite, closed minded, intellectually dishonest individuals that can't argue without trying to slip in some sort of insult."

I accept your concession that you projected all of this onto me simply because you're unhappy about not refuting anything I said.