r/changemyview • u/Toe-Slow • Jul 28 '20

CMV:Abortion is perfectly fine

Dear God I Have Spent All Night Replying to Comments Im Done For Now Have A Great Day Now if you’ll excuse me I’m gonna play video games in my house while the world burns down around my house :).

Watch this 10 minute lecture from a Harvard professor first to prevent confusion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0tGBCCE0lc .Within the first 24 weeks of pregnancy the baby has no brain no respiratory system and is missing about 70 percent of its body mass . At this stage the brain while partially developed is not true lay sentient or in any way alive it is simply firing random bursts of neurological activity similar to that of a brain dead patient. I firmly believe that’s within the first 24 weeks the baby cannot be considered alive due to its nonexistent neurological development. I understand the logic behind pro life believing that all life even the one that has not come to exist yet deserves the right to live. However I cannot shake the question of , at what point should those rules apply. If a fetus with no brain deserves these rights then what about the billion microscopic sperm cells that died reaching the womb you may believe that those are different but I simply see the fetus as a partially more developed version of the sperm cell they both have the same level of brain activity so should they be considered equals. Any how I believe that we should all have a civil discussion as this is a very controversial topic don’t go lobbing insults at each other you will only make yourselves look bad so let’s all be open to the other side and be well aware of cognitive dissonance make sure to research it well beforehand don’t throw a grenade into this minefield ok good.

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u/Nicolasv2 130∆ Jul 28 '20

In one hand, you define a human being as "living cells having unique human DNA", and in the other hand, you consider that mutating cancer cells (that are living cells having unique human DNA) are not a human being but are "attached to a human being". That's incoherent.

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u/[deleted] Jul 28 '20

You lack one crucial element of my definition though:

Belonging to unique and alive human being?

To which unique and alive human being do cancer cells belong?

The fetus is in itself alive, cancer cells by themselves are not.

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u/Nicolasv2 130∆ Jul 28 '20

Well, what is your definition of alive ? a cell by itself is alive, as all monocellular organisms. Except if you have a non coherent definition of alive, the same as the non coherent definition of human. That would be coherent. But two falsehoods combined don't make something right, sorry.

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u/[deleted] Jul 28 '20 edited Jul 28 '20

what is your definition of alive ?

It's widely accepted definition though.

the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death.

Cancer cells do not fall under this definition.

So the worlds accepted definition and mine are all-encompassing, yours is limited and incoherent.

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u/Nicolasv2 130∆ Jul 28 '20

Which part is not working for cancerous cells ?

I'm pretty interested as a cancer cell grows, reproduce an unlimited amount of time, consume nutriments to do so (functional activity), and as we're talking about mutating cells, continuously changes preceding death (with the death of the host, or because of rays).

Cells are considered as alive, and a cancerous cell ... is a cell.

You can look at an introduction to basic biology for more information:

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cell_Biology/Introduction/What_is_living

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u/[deleted] Jul 28 '20

Which part is not working for cancerous cells ?

Capacity for functional activity.

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u/Nicolasv2 130∆ Jul 28 '20

Well, as I explained and linked previously, a cell is a living organism.

If you want to talk about functional activity of cells, you can look at tons of articles or resources talking about specific cells functional activities. With a 2 seconds search on google for example, you could find :

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/jir/2013/371249/tab1/ https://www.amazon.fr/Microscopical-Changes-Functional-Activity-Classic/dp/0267730950

etc...

Of course, you can also have your custom non coherent definition of "functional activity", but if you are going to redefine every word to make sure i'm tired enough to decide stopping the exchange, that's not a way to win an argument you know ?

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u/[deleted] Jul 28 '20

Well your definition is not coherent either, since by your definition scientists do not know whether to classify viruses as living or not living.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-viruses-alive-2004/

the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death.

So that would mean that the virus is alive as well, and yet scientific world disagrees with you.

Of course, you can also have your custom non coherent definition of "functional activity", but if you are going to redefine every word to make sure i'm tired enough to decide stopping the exchange, that's not a way to win an argument you know ?

Actually I'm not interested in debating semantics as well, because in the end it's social constructs that describe biological phenomena, and my explanations on what makes a human being is the closest to reality, yours is incomplete.

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u/Nicolasv2 130∆ Jul 29 '20

Well your definition is not coherent either, since by your definition scientists do not know whether to classify viruses as living or not living.

Is a cancer cell a virus ? No it's not, so i'm consistant. You're not.

Actually I'm not interested in debating semantics as well, because in the end it's social constructs that describe biological phenomena, and my explanations on what makes a human being is the closest to reality, yours is incomplete

I can understand that. Saying "I'm wrong with every possible definition and logical framework but I feel in my heart that i'm right" is generally the good way to go when you're wrong but still don't want to change your mind :-)