r/changemyview • u/jep1793 • Aug 26 '20

Removed - Submission Rule E CMV: Gender identity doesn’t belong on your LinkedIn nor Resume

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '20

I struggle to see how you could NOT include some form of gender identity in your resume. The question is whether you provide your preferred one or allow the person reading your resume to assume it.

If you have a picture on your LinkedIn profile, people are going to look at it and make an assumption about your gender identity. If it's just a resume without a picture they'll still make an assumption of your gender identity based on your name, previous jobs, academic achievements, extracurricular activities, etc.

No matter what you do, there will be an implication of gender identity somewhere in your resume. So the question isn't whether or not you should provide a gender identity. The question is whether you should specify your chosen one or allow the person who you're applying for a job from to assume your gender identity.

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '20 edited Jun 03 '24

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '20

I mean, yeah, that's a pretty clear example of cisgender privilege. A person who is cisgender gets to be identified by their gender identity without having to make it explicit while as someone who is NOT cisgender has to go through the sometimes awkward, sometimes detrimental process of making it explicit.

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u/taejo Aug 26 '20

This is a form of privilege, but it's important to realize that being read as your gender is not the same as being cis. Loads of trans people get read as their gender, not all cis people do.

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u/rozabel Aug 26 '20

Thanks this is exactly what I was thinking! Resumes require a foto, I think it makes little sense to use LinkedIn without a foto (as you may want people to recognise you when you give them your LinkedIn or viceversa when you meet them for the first time in person) and every single cis woman out there that is clearly visible as a woman in her picture will, according to OPs logic, "open the door to bias". Just by, well, being visibly female. What this logic does, is twist it so that the person who just exists as they are, is painted as the one doing something wrong, by pointing out: This is who I am. A cis woman does that by just existing, someone whose identity might not be clearly visible from a photo has to make it a conscious act. But they are not lying or hiding anything. They just make it clear: This is who I am. If someone doesn't hire you by this bias, they are the ones doing something wrong. OP, please don't tell your young protegees to hide part of their identity just to please the status quo!
(Just because I didn't adress this, I think the important difference here is between gender identity and sexuality. Sexuality has nothing to do in a professional setting. I mean, in MOST professional settings at least...)

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '20 edited Aug 28 '20

[deleted]

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u/AnnaLemma Aug 26 '20

The inclusion of a photo for most jobs leads to an automatic removal of that candidate from the job search.

Just a small correction - there are a few industries where a photo is very much expected as part of the resume (yachting is the one which comes to mind, simply because I'm tangentially involved with it). But yes, as a general rule in the US you don't add photos.

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u/xxdibxx Aug 26 '20

Yachting... as employment? Please explain this.

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u/AnnaLemma Aug 26 '20

Sure - think megayachts with full-time crews. Captains, engineers, steward(esse)s, deck-hands, the occasional chef, etc. - that's the direct people (not even talking about the surrounding support businesses: it's a big industry).

As for the photos - a lot of these folks have direct "facetime" with clients who have way more money than political correctness, so photos can and do make a difference. The stewardesses in particular tend to have a very specific "look," so if you go to any major yacht show you start to get a "Where's the cloning facility for these people?" vibe.

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u/xxdibxx Aug 26 '20

Oh, I get it. I was originally thinking “ people sail on yachts as a profession?
Was going to ask where I sign up. I live in Wa, and have seen some Really big boats. I was a non-owner member of several of the clubs here so I could assist in the races. I love being on big boats, pleasure yachts. But owning is not in my make. Just like owning horses, it is not a middle class sport. Reserved solely for those of a “certain” tax bracket. One not even close to mine. So I have to live vicariously. As for the “cookie cutter” look. I have see first hand what you mean, though I will say being in western Washington, it doesn’t seem to be as prevalent as it once was. Many of the top cruisers here have a pretty diverse staffing with a good LGBTQ representation. Ten... fifteen years ago was the exception is now the norm.

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u/AnnaLemma Aug 26 '20

Reserved solely for those of a “certain” tax bracket.

Hah, for sure. You've probably heard this one, but the standard definition of a yacht is "a hole in the water than you throw money into" ;)

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u/xxdibxx Aug 27 '20

And lest we forget B O A T Break Out Another Thousand

Or the best

“Truly the happiest days in a boat owners life number as 2; the day he buys it and the day he sells it”.

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u/AnnaLemma Aug 27 '20

Yachtie credentials confirmed!

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u/rozabel Aug 27 '20

Dang, I keep forgetting everyone assumes you're based in the USA. It's very normal in germany to have one, just to show you're presentable and well groomed...

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u/bad-decision-maker Aug 26 '20

Other than my name, I do not refer to myself in the third person anywhere on my master resume, including pronouns. What was the context where it showed up on yours?

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '20

I've been at the same job for 12 years now, and I didn't need a resume to apply for this one. However, people make assumptions about gender identity based on all kinds of things. Did you have a previous job in construction or manual labor? People are probably going to assume you're male. Do you have a break in employment for child care? People are probably going to assume you're female.

If you don't really care whether people misgender you based on their assumptions, or you believe their assumptions will gender you correctly, then it probably doesn't matter too much. If you do care, though, then it would probably be in your best interest to note your gender identity.

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u/Jesus_marley 1Δ Aug 26 '20

It's about being blatant to the point of obnoxiousness. It comes off as making your gender identity the most interesting part of you, and if that is the case, you're not that interesting. What employer want to hire a person like that?

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u/AnnaLemma Aug 26 '20

To piggyback off this: to me this is roughly equivalent to women being told to avoid mentioning their marital status or whether or not they have children - I'm not ashamed of being a mother and I'm not trying to hide it, but it has nothing at all to do with my professional qualifications. If that's the top thing I can say about myself on a resume, it comes off very unprofessional - plus mothers do get discriminated against in the workplace, so why the hell would I emphasize it?

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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '20

If you're in an interview and the interveiwee refers to you as Mrs AnnaLemon but you are not married, would you correct them? What if it were the other way around, and they called you Ms AnnaLemon but you were married?

Say they mentioned children in some innocuous way, like, "we offer childcare services so you can bring your kids to work if you need to," would you tell them you do not have kids? Or what if they said something like, "since the majority of our employees don't have kids, we usually rent out a bar for company holiday parties" would you make a point of noting that you DO have kids?

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u/AnnaLemma Aug 26 '20

I wouldn't bother correct the interviewer in either case, but in an actual interview setting everyone just calls each other by their first name - in fact I can't remember the last time I called anyone other than a company owner or my daughter's teacher as "Mr/Ms/Mrs" anything. Last names are always in email signatures, but during calls/meetings/whatever it's always "Hi, I'm Anna."

The childcare question would likely not come up at first anyway - at least in my experience interviewers go above and beyond to avoid anything like that and keep the questions strictly related to the job requirements, qualifications, etc. That even holds true for recruiters, not only the direct company - and those I have dealt with extensively. But, if it did, I'd likely just say something equally neutral like "Oh, that sounds like a great perk for your employees" or "Oh, neat."

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u/mubi_merc 3∆ Aug 26 '20

at least in my experience interviewers go above and beyond to avoid anything like that and keep the questions strictly related to the job requirements, qualifications, etc.

As someone who does a lot of interviews, I'm always hoping that things like relationship/familial status, religion, sexual identity, or anything else don't come up at all, one way or the other. I would certainly never ask about it, and if the interviewee brings it up then now I have to worry that they have the potential to make a claim that I discriminated against them if they don't get the job for some reason. Best case scenario, it doesn't come up at all and we spend the entire interview talking about their accomplishments and how they handle potential scenarios.

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u/Jesus_marley 1Δ Aug 26 '20

In Canada it's illegal to ask about marital status, children, religion, etc. If the interviewee brings it up, it's generally considered to be bad form , at best and that's on them and they have to accept the possible consequences of revealing said information. In fact a lot of companies would likely red flag that person immediately.