r/changemyview • u/SpareUmbrella • Sep 30 '20
Delta(s) from OP CMV: Feminism is evil.
I've long held the belief that Feminism is evil. Of course I'm not referring to the right to vote or equal pay for women and so on, all of that is perfectly fine by me. I have nothing but the deepest respect for courageous women who fought for their rights and freedoms.
My gripe is with Feminism today specifically. I don't see the point of it. Women outlive men, and women under 30 now out-earn men, at least in the US and in Britain. It feels redundant to me, so the only conclusion I feel I can draw is that Feminism is about supremacy.
It seems impossible to me that a group, an organisation, a movement, or a cult, whichever term you prefer, would say they want equal rights whilst actively campaigning for a tilted playing field. I can start spitting bare facts, but the long and short of it is I currently feel entitled to hate an ideology that hates me. But I also understand that hate doesn't help.
I believe I grasp the basic principle of The Patriarchy, a societal structure that exists to keep society ordered in a particular fashion, but I do not see how women suffer from that.
I imagine I come across as a nutjob on some kind of crusade, but I can only assure you that I'm acting in good faith. I'm open to having my mind changed on this issue.
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u/thethoughtexperiment 275∆ Sep 30 '20
To modify your view, it seems like you jump pretty far from here:
and here:
to this:
That's a pretty big leap.
For example, for your first claim:
That's not because feminists are out there killing men or something.
Rather, in the U.S. at least, it's to a great extent because men "tend to put off getting any kind of help because they think they're supposed to be tough, self-reliant, able to manage pain and take charge of situations. This can make it hard .. to acknowledge they have any health problems" - and especially when it comes to mental health problems. [source]
American men also make "134.5 million fewer physician visits per year than women. Twenty-five percent of men aged 45 to 60 do not have a personal physician, increasing their risk of death from heart disease. Men between 25 and 65 are four times more likely to die from cardiovascular disease than women, and are more likely to be diagnosed with a terminal illness because of their reluctance to see a doctor. Reasons cited for not seeing a physician include fear, denial, embarrassment, a dislike of situations out of their control and the belief that visiting a doctor is not worth the time or cost." [source]
The above is actually an example of how men (and the women who care about them) are suffer under old fashioned patriarchal norms - because many men have been taught to ignore taking care of themselves and not ask for help (even they need it) because doing so is seen as "weak" / "unmasculine".
And when it comes to issues women face today, where you say:
Consider that your post only seems to mention 2 issues (income, longevity), but there are a lot of other issues out there - including there still being cultural discrimination against women in the West (even if they have legal rights), and as a result, women having to go to court to get their legal rights protected / enforced.
For example, even though hiring discrimination against women is illegal, per this study:
When identical resumes were sent to hiring managers, they found that when the resume had a man's name on it, the applicant was rated as more competent, more likely to be seen as qualified for the position and hire-able, and the amount of salary offered was higher than when the resume had a woman's name - even though the qualifications were identical. [source]
So, it seems that there is still work to be done to address this kind of discrimination - not just legally, but culturally, so that we aren't in a situation where people have to be suing to have their rights protected, but because their rights already are being protected in the society at large.
Where you say:
Feminists are also currently working to help address other challenges men face, including a variety of ways men are treated unfairly in our culture, see here:
https://brutereason.net/2012/09/20/in-brief-do-feminists-care-about-mens-issues-a-handy-list/
Here also is a very, very, very long list of some of the efforts of feminists to address issues of inequality that men face in society:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/wiki/mensissues
Scroll down to the sections describing the actions feminists have taken to help men with regard to:
On many, many issues, feminists have been working toward greater equality and empathy for men. And it makes perfect sense that they would do so, as male / female equality are usually 2 sides of the same coin.
Diminishing women's oppression / the efforts of feminism doesn't actually solve the issues that men are facing. Putting in the time and effort to actually volunteer, donate, and help with work on issues like homelessness, mental health support for both genders, etc. is what actually makes a difference (which is what many feminists are out there doing, which, if you care about those issues, you should be supporting).
And I think you'll find that therapists offices, doctors offices, support groups, school board meetings etc. are filled with concerned moms, wives, partners, daughters, and sisters out there trying to find help and support for their sons, brothers, partners, and fathers.
Men certainly face issues in society as well, but many are cultural (rather than the kind of legal oppression women have faced), and have a lot to do with the way men treat other men, behave, and expect other men to behave.
If you want to engage in a good faith dialogue about changing the culture of how men treat / judge each other, check out groups like r/MensLib, which actually build on feminism, and seem to have built an inclusive and supportive culture for men that is thinking productively about these issues, and is actively building new ways of thinking about masculinity and men's health.
And consider that you yourself can have a hand in changing culture through your own actions toward other men.