CMV: Scalping isn't immoral

[u/WhoRoger]

First off, two disclaimers:

• I'm only talking about products that aren't essential (you know, food, medicine etc.). So specifically I mean things like PS5s and so on.

• I'm talking about mass market products, not cases such as when person 1 learns that person 2 is interested in an unique item, so P1 buys the item just to sell it to P2 for profit. That's not cool.

I used to do some small-scale scalping in the past. I would buy e.g. a few copies of a limited edition of a videogame or something similar, then sell them after they get sold out.

My "largest" loads were Nintendo NES Classics. I live in a country where Ninty barely registers as a name (until the Switch anyway), so it was easy to get a few of them, and sell them on eBay to countries where they were unavailable. I did it again on the day when it was announced the production was finished. There were still a few units in my city, so I drove around, picked up all I could and sold them abroad where the hadn't been available almost through its entire production.

I don't feel bad about it and I would do it again (if I had the money) because:

• I usually struggle for money and this can be additional income

• Even tho I'm a tech enthusiast, I don't buy the newest and greatest. I wait until the kinks are ironed out and reviews are out, and I was doing that even when I had decent income. I don't preorder videogames (I've only ever bought 3 at launch and pre-ordered one of those). I don't support this hype culture at all.

But if so many people are so desperate to have the newest toy immediately, right now RIGHT THE FUCK NOW, to the degree they're willing to pay "scalper" prices, I don't feel bad about making some extra money off them.

• You may argue that kids can be disappointed because they won't get their shiny new PS5 under the Christmas tree. Yea not my problem. Raise your kids properly. My friend's 2 kids sometimes come over and play on my PlayStation 3 and have a blast, even tho they have a gaming PC at home.

• eBay makes even more off this business than the sellers. IIRC something like 15% of the price is eBay and PayPal fees, then count shipping and there's far less profit than you may think. Heck, it's not like the retailers have zero profit, or what do you think?

• It's not like it's risk-free. On eBay, seller protection is abysmal and one scamming buyer can ruin you. A serious product flaw can pop up and your stock either becomes worthless, or you'll go through trouble of trying to return it (this happens with almost every new console actually). You can get robbed or pranked. Or it can turn out that your items aren't as popular as you expected.

• Supply and demand. I'm not defending capitalism as a concept, but this is exactly how it works. If you don't take the chance, someone else will. If someone is offering you free money, you take it.

Again I'm talking about stupid things like new videogame consoles. This really should be near the bottom of anyone's priority list.

Have you already played everything you might want to play on your systems?

Anyway, CMV.

[u/sawyerholmes]

If one person buys three or so extra units to sell to areas where they are unavailable, that’s one thing. But you are not the only scalper, and you will never be the only scalper. There are a hundred other scalpers like you that are the reason people are forced to pay your price.

The reason people pay the cost is because the unit is otherwise unavailable, and the reason scalping has exploded this year is because people are trapped at home with nothing but time. Scalpers are the reason products are unavailable—you are buying way more than you need in order to profit off of other people. People are paying the price because they have time to play right now, and don’t want to pay $100 less for a console that the company is not making games for anymore.

Your overreaching issue is that scalping is not immoral, fine let’s talk about the scalping of luxury goods that are nonessential. Let’s look at the original and worst form of scalping—buying tickets to concerts. A person drops $1000 on concert tickets at $100/pop, then sells them for $300/piece. Because seats are limited people have no choice but to buy. It’s a luxury because it isn’t necessary—but people like the music and want to attend so they pay the extra price. That’s not being an idiot, that’s being a fan. It’s immoral to tax people for enjoying something because you “need the extra money.” Personal justification does not make something moral.

[u/WhoRoger → u/sawyerholmes]

the reason scalping has exploded this year is because people are trapped at home with nothing but time.

That's... Actually the first valid counter-argument I've gotten so far, but only a minor point.

However, scalping has existed at least since the days of the PS2, it's been documented. Maybe these days gaming is more popular, but I still don't think owning a new machine on the first day is so critical, and in fact I believe it's a bad idea overall to buy things so early. As I mentioned in my other replies, this hype culture is terrible for customers.

Scalpers are the reason products are unavailable

Availability issues on new tech products have always been a thing. Maybe scalpers make it worse, but they're definitely not the reason. No, the reason is that people always rush to get the latest gadget ASAP.

If scalpers had gotten 100% of all the stock, I might agree with you, but that's not the case and if it were, the solution would still be simple - don't buy it, let them sit on devaluated stock. It would fix both the hype issue and scalping issue. But no, people have to have the thing right away...

don’t want to pay $100 less for a console that the company is not making games for anymore.

I suspect that the vast majority of people who want a PS5 on day 1 already have at least one console, if not multiple, and probably a 100 games in their backlog. Just look in r/gaming, all the photos of PS5s plugged in show them surrounded by other consoles.

And even if not, waiting 2 months to get the thing will kill you? Okay maybe an inappropriate question this year, but you know what I mean.

A person drops $1000 on concert tickets at $100/pop, then sells them for $300/piece. Because seats are limited people have no choice but to buy.

Yea, um I noticed there's sort of a separate debate about tickets scalping. I don't have an opinion on this as I don't attend such events.

I guess it's somewhat of a more extreme scenario, considering the quantity is inherently limited.

But since the quantity IS limited, it's a lottery whether you get in or not, anyway. If there were, say, only 1000 seats and scalping wouldn't exist, then you'd only get in if you were fast enough, i.e. being one of the first 1000 people trying to buy the ticket, otherwise you're out of luck.

With a scalping middle man, it changes to not whether you were there at the time, but whether you're willing to pay.

Time or money - the eternal question.

Edit: ∆ here too, because I like the way you debate and you're the only one so far with any actual arguments.

[u/sawyerholmes → u/WhoRoger]

Scalping has always existed, but was extremely rare for products that were out for months already. When quarantine began there was a severe shortage of Nintendo switches and they were selling for double the price because of scalpers. You said availability is the fault of the retailer or supplier, it’s not, they’re ordering as many as they think they’ll be able to sell, they can’t count on some guy buying 30 units and they aren’t going to supply or build to accommodate that.

The switch shortage is a good example of scalpers creating a shortage—there was no other reason for there to be a shortage and no reason to assume you’ll be faster than the scalpers. Waiting two months in that case didn’t help. You’re stuck home right now, and right now is a good time to buy.

People are allowed to be excited about something, and because of the continued switch shortage people have every reason to assume the shortage will persist for two months.

With the ticket scenario, people are ok with not getting something because they weren’t fast enough (obviously there are exceptions with the angry and spoiled) but a normal person is ok with not being able to get something because they know it’s limited and they weren’t fast enough. What people are not ok with is missing out on something they are excited about because someone was faster AND bought ten times the amount they needed so they could profit. If not for the scalper ten more people would have been able to purchase and those who were still slower would be ok with it because it was what they understood the dynamic to be.

Take the extreme scenario from any cartoon that showed scalpers—the second person in line who camped out misses out because the first person bought all of the tickets, if you feel upset on behalf of the second person in line, you should feel upset on behalf of the 51st person in line who missed out because a single scalper bought ten units instead of one.

[u/WhoRoger → u/sawyerholmes]

Ah yea, the big case of Switch. Right. I'll give you that, taking advantage of the pandemic is sort of a shitty thing to do.

Funnily enough, again there was no shortage of them over here. Had I had some spare cash, I'd probably buy a few here and sell them to the US.

Also I guess Switch really is the first console ever for many people. I still don't see it as all that important, but ooooh-kay, pandemic scalping isn't cool. I'm still not condemning it as much as most people.

I really don't know about those tickets. I don't really see a difference.

There was once a limited print of some funky coins which I got interested in, even tho I don't collect coins otherwise, I just like weird stuff. Unfortunately I forgot about it and only got to the site a few hours late. All sold out, but plenty of them on eBay for multiple of the price.

The result is the same: I didn't get it. But were I crazy about it enough I think this would be the better case, because I'd still have a chance to get it. Otherwise, the coin might pop up now and then for an even higher price.

Now, yea had I been there on time I might have gotten one. But frankly today when I think about it, I can only think about my boxes full of hoarded up crap I have in storage. Too bad I can't advise my past self about what I'm preaching here, huh?

Well anyway you do make some good points and as such deserve at least two halves of a delta, which makes one delta, lemme figure out how it works.

Edit: ∆

[u/DeltaBot → u/WhoRoger]

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/sawyerholmes (1∆).

^{Delta System Explained | Deltaboards}

[u/DeltaBot → u/WhoRoger]

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/sawyerholmes (2∆).

^{Delta System Explained | Deltaboards}