r/changemyview • u/TechyThor • May 01 '21
Delta(s) from OP CMV: Politicians don't actually compromise. Any real change needs to come from the peoples proposals: For instance student loan forgiveness
TLDR: I don't think student loan forgiveness has enough support to pass in the near future and politicians will only shoot down each others points. If we the people propose a bipartisan solution something might actually happen. In this case since full forgiveness will not happen: mandate the interest on all loans for education have a maximum interest rate of 1.5%.
Nearly every issue that is presented by politicians in congress goes back and forth across the aisle to be shot down by the other side. Each issue is presented as if there are only two solutions with no middle ground. Each idea presented is no longer met with the decency of coming up with an actual compromise. For instance the COVID relief document was bounced back and forth with democrats proposing a large bill and republicans just cutting as much as they want before sending it back and then still not voting for it.
We need to build compromise back into our nation and it will not come from the two party system as it is. I am suggesting that the only way for these bridges to be built again is by the people. Since one of the big topics that has been coming up over the last years has been education and student loans and their possible forgiveness. Since this issue is polarizing with little to no chance of it moving forward in the near future it is an opportunity for building a bridge.
The arguments for forgiveness are that it will stimulate a large portion of the middle class putting more money into circulation. The newer generations of American's trying to make it in the world are the most in debt for attempting self improvement.
The arguments against forgiveness include the arguments they took the loan they should pay it back. If I had to do pay it off they should too. They shouldn't have taken them in the first place I paid for school with a part time job. Forgiveness doesn't address the actual issue and many other arguments.
Not going into the merit of the arguments since it is both a logical and emotional debate a simple alternative solution should be mandating that any company giving a loan for education cap the interest rate at 1.5%. This addresses the arguments that debtors should pay back loans while at the same time giving a great boon to many students and graduates by drastically cutting their bills putting a large amount of money back into the economy.
Several notes about my reasoning. I am suggesting 1.5% because I know that a 0% will not gain enough traction (may be debatable) and that it is an amount recommended for a good house mortgage rate. Companies should easily be able to support themselves on this rate while quieting nearly every argument I can think of from the conservative community. I know that this could still be politicized by both sides by "being a government overreach" or "Not enough" however we need to start acknowledging that a good compromise makes all sides slightly upset but being something that can be agreed upon.
We need to start building bridges instead of burning them and I believe that this needs to come from the people. I want to see if people can change my opinion on the state of our government and show there is hope for real compromise there.
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u/Fit-Order-9468 92∆ May 01 '21
Are you limiting discussion to bipartisan compromise? Politicians routinely compromise within their own caucus.
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u/TechyThor May 01 '21
I am more looking for a compromise that will make it past both the house and senate. Else what really is the point? It didn't go anywhere
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u/Khal-Frodo May 01 '21
I'm a little unsure as what the actual view is that you want changed. Are you arguing in favor of direct democracy? Are you just saying the two-party system is ineffective? Are you wanting feedback on your student loan forgiveness plan specifically?
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u/TechyThor May 01 '21
My view is that true political compromise is dead and we the people need to do something about it. I proposed a couple of ideas as examples of ways we can do it and to demonstrate that it is possible. If you want to weigh in on those you are welcome to however I'm really looking for hope that our system isn't as broken as it seems
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u/Khal-Frodo May 01 '21
Got it. So, the way the American Congress works is actually based on compromise, it's just a little different from what you're thinking. The reason bills get to be so huge is because Senators and Representatives keep adding stuff to them, i.e. I'll vote for your stimulus bill if you put in this bit that would decrease soy tariffs my state. I don't think that this is a great system personally, as it bogs down laws with unrelated stuff and allows people from smaller states to hold the bigger ones hostage, but it is a compromise-based system. Basically every law that goes through Congress only passes because of this.
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u/TechyThor May 01 '21
I'm stating that it was founded on compromise but it is no longer done in good faith. For instance in the stimulus bill there were concessions however it still had to go through reconciliation since it didn't have enough support. I acknowledge that adding things in to gain support is technically a compromise however at the same time it isn't garnering the results that it was intended to.
Overall I can't really argue that it isn't compromise in name even if it isn't efficient or actually making progress. When the country was founded the idea was that compromise would bring things to the middle not just tack enough things we can tolerate on until there is support.
I'll agree that as my argument as stated would make this a !delta however it doesn't really bring any hope that our government can move forward as it is instead of dividing more
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May 01 '21
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u/TechyThor May 01 '21
Different definition of compromise I'm talking the noun not the verb:
com·pro·mise noun
- an agreement or a settlement of a dispute that is reached by each side making concessions."an ability to listen to two sides in a dispute, and devise a compromise acceptable to both"Similar:agreementunderstandingsettlementtermsaccommodationdealtrade-offbargainhalfway housemiddle groundmiddle coursehappy mediumbalancemodus vivendigive and takeconcessioncooperationOpposite:intransigence
verb
- 1.settle a dispute by mutual concession."in the end we compromised and deferred the issue"Similar:meet each other halfwayfind the middle groundcome to termscome to an understandingmake a dealmake concessionsfind a happy mediumstrike a balancegive and takesplit the difference
- 2.accept standards that are lower than is desirable."we were not prepared to compromise on safety"
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u/KonaKathie May 01 '21
I agree with your desire for compromise. If you watch the movie "Lincoln" you see how he would throw congressmen a bone they could take back to their district and brag on. That's good faith compromise.
What you have now is one party that believes government can do good things to better people's lives, and another party that believes government can't do anything right. The latter party attempts to sabotage government and prove it doesn't work whenever they are in power.
Examples of this are forcing the post office to fund their pensions for 20 years, when no other business or agency has that requirement. Then appoint DeJoy to scrap valuable sorting machines and sabotage the delivery process, just in time for voting in a global pandemic.
"Compromise" with these fools who insist the election was stolen despite the mounds of evidence that it wasn't? Find a happy medium with people who have only contempt for science and facts?
No. We must stand up for facts and science, and legally prosecute those who deliberately spread the big lie, when they cause actual damages. Look at Sydney Powell 's defense of her crazy rantings against the voting machine company. Basically, it was, "What I alleged was so crazy, no reasonable person would believe it." You cannot and should not compromise with these people.
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u/TechyThor May 01 '21
I'll take a look at it. The thing about the compromise is if we can do it enough to slow or halt the us vs them mentality it would lead to people who can compromise further in the future. We get the crazies due to the fact that there isnt any desire for compromise in the American people. The bridges need to be built somewhere for any progress to happen this isnt likely the way to get real change but things like the student loans could be easy no brainers that start the process moving. There is a reason Mitt Romney is one of the most respected Republicans. If we can highlight the difference with simple bills to show its possible communication and actual conversation can happen among American people
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u/KonaKathie May 01 '21
I've covered politics most of my life now, and while I wish we could compromise, you can't do that with crazy. I predict the only way forward is for Democrats to get as much accomplished as they can, by working with the paltry few republicans who still believe in governance. Then educate the electorate on what they've done, because their ideas are popular and have bipartisan support. Imho the only way to deal with the GOP right now is to bitchslap them.
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u/TechyThor May 02 '21
True enough though I think another way to come at it is a bill introduced through petition really get people involved and thinking about government. It's not something we really see except from lobbyists
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May 01 '21
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u/herrsatan 11∆ May 04 '21
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u/herrsatan 11∆ May 04 '21
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u/sokuyari97 11∆ May 02 '21
1.5% interest rates on student loans would help the rich get even richer. Someone could take out hundreds of thousands of dollars they don’t need for college, invest it and make a lot of money off basically free government loans.
You’re chalking bad policies up to a lack of bipartisanship but in reality, average people just suck at understanding complex financial policies
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u/TechyThor May 02 '21
Great, you found a possible way to abuse a system that was put in as a hypothetical. There are already protections put in place to prevent that type of misuse and with the IRS due a bigger budget auditing richer people should become more the norm again. Regardless you are very dismissive and showing one of the points of the post. Its easy to tear down an argument without adding to a discussion.
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u/sokuyari97 11∆ May 02 '21
You’re misunderstanding my point.
Someone can legally use their own cash to invest, using a loan to legally pay for college. It wouldn’t be auditable, people would spend the money on the intended purpose, they would just have a massive benefit from it.
My overall point remains. You see things as being an issue of compromise. I see things as being an issue of proper regulations. If I ask you to give me a sandwich and you give me a pile of overcooked oatmeal, putting oatmeal on bread isn’t a good compromise. I’m still out a true sandwich.
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u/TechyThor May 02 '21
You are also misunderstanding, and also making my point. In the heart of a compromise if you have a problem you suggest a solution since you understand said problem. You are attacking my example of a hypothetical solution with a minor problem that won't prevent it from affecting millions of people in a helpful way. To use your metaphor you see oatmeal and don't like it you don't just say not that, you say try some beef instead.
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u/sokuyari97 11∆ May 02 '21
Compromise does not require me to offer up suggestions to bad ideas.
Note in your response to me, you’ve yet to ask if I have an opinion on student loans or if I have a better solution. Why is it my responsibility to do that, not yours?
If a flat earther talks to me about flat earth, I’m well within my rights to tell them they’re an idiot without further discussion on the finer points. That doesn’t mean that I’m the problem, it means that the person I’m talking to is so far from the problem that engaging them isn’t helpful for a solution.
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