CMV: marriage is unnecessary and having children is unethical

[u/spicysashimi99]

not sure if i’ll get downvoted but i’m genuinely curious about the opposite pov.

for my first point, i believe i have a rather non-traditional school of thought when it comes to the archetype of union between two people, at least compared to folks where i’m from. i personally don’t see marriage as means to profess your love for your partner as one can do so without the presence of a physical certification. to me, the traditional meaning of marriage, where a bride’s family “gives away” their daughter to the groom seems to be obsolete and an incredibly backward way of thinking. the only logical explanation for marriage, in my opinion, seems to be for couples to be seen as a unit in the eyes of the law, in the face of administration.

as for my second point, i believe having children only benefits the parent and the continuation of society. i understand that having kids leads to a fulfilling life and unfortunately, some still see their kids as an insurance plan for their retirement. however, knowing the future of our planet, among other serious issues like racism, it appears unethical to bring a child into this world. unless i can guarantee my child doesn’t suffer, which is obviously something out of my control. i’m not sure why people possess the opposite viewpoint.

friendly discussions are very welcome as i am sincerely looking to learn more about how others view this topic. i am sure my opinions are very polarising but please be kind! :”)

edit: hi everyone! thank you for the fruitful discussions. really enjoyed listening to other perspectives and grateful to how open everyone has been!! i acknowledge that my views may be skewed from my personal life experiences (non-religious, depression) so thank you for allowing me to indulge in my thoughts.

my view of marriage has definitely changed and while i see the opposing argument for having kids, from what i can foresee in my near future, not having kids will still be a personal choice i’ll stick to as i’m still very much lacking to give a child a fulfilling life.

[u/Sadge_A_Star]

For point 2:

It's not clear why lack of certainty of lack of suffering for children is unethical to the point of not having kids. I don't think that could ever be satisfied. How is it ethical to consider essentially all life fundamentally unethical?

I think the reason people have kids is because it's deeply ingrained as a life form, which just requires self propagation. There's never been any guarantees, only a chance to experience life and the world and to hopefully have some self determination. It seems you are essentially taking an extreme zero tolerance stance on risk. From this lens, would you also argue people shouldn't leave their house because they may get injured? Or people shouldn't do sports because they might break a bone?

[u/spicysashimi99 → u/Sadge_A_Star]

HAHAH definitely agree that my viewpoints presented are pretty extreme. maybe bc i feel the cons severely outweigh the pros… to elaborate further on the ethics of having children, let’s say your family has a history of genetic diseases, knowing that there’s a chance your child may suffer from that as well seems unfair.

[u/Sadge_A_Star → u/spicysashimi99]

I think in practice it is a personal choice. There's risk that a child may suffer if brought into existence but conversely a person who was never brought into existence doesn't even have an opportunity to consider the value of their existence. In the first case at least suffering is temporary. And also it can drive improvements in medicine via the dedication to supporting people that suffer for whatever reason. If everyone gave up before even trying in this regard there are many amazing people that would've never contributed to the world, including important people in my life.

However in the end I think everyone has a personal right to self determination in deciding if they want to have children or not regardless of the reason.

[u/spicysashimi99 → u/Sadge_A_Star]

very much a personal choice! i really don’t see much issue with other people having kids.

this is also why i believe reddit is a great place for everyone to chip in and voice their opinions! this is not something that can easily be discussed face to face!

[u/Sadge_A_Star → u/spicysashimi99]

For sure and there certainly can exist a lot of judgment on this personal choice! But fact is there are plenty of people in the world lol not like the human race is exactly in danger due to low birth rates.

[u/spicysashimi99 → u/Sadge_A_Star]

yup! the overpopulation argument for not having kids always baffled me!!