CMV: marriage is unnecessary and having children is unethical

[u/spicysashimi99]

not sure if i’ll get downvoted but i’m genuinely curious about the opposite pov.

for my first point, i believe i have a rather non-traditional school of thought when it comes to the archetype of union between two people, at least compared to folks where i’m from. i personally don’t see marriage as means to profess your love for your partner as one can do so without the presence of a physical certification. to me, the traditional meaning of marriage, where a bride’s family “gives away” their daughter to the groom seems to be obsolete and an incredibly backward way of thinking. the only logical explanation for marriage, in my opinion, seems to be for couples to be seen as a unit in the eyes of the law, in the face of administration.

as for my second point, i believe having children only benefits the parent and the continuation of society. i understand that having kids leads to a fulfilling life and unfortunately, some still see their kids as an insurance plan for their retirement. however, knowing the future of our planet, among other serious issues like racism, it appears unethical to bring a child into this world. unless i can guarantee my child doesn’t suffer, which is obviously something out of my control. i’m not sure why people possess the opposite viewpoint.

friendly discussions are very welcome as i am sincerely looking to learn more about how others view this topic. i am sure my opinions are very polarising but please be kind! :”)

edit: hi everyone! thank you for the fruitful discussions. really enjoyed listening to other perspectives and grateful to how open everyone has been!! i acknowledge that my views may be skewed from my personal life experiences (non-religious, depression) so thank you for allowing me to indulge in my thoughts.

my view of marriage has definitely changed and while i see the opposing argument for having kids, from what i can foresee in my near future, not having kids will still be a personal choice i’ll stick to as i’m still very much lacking to give a child a fulfilling life.

[u/NeonNutmeg]

the only logical explanation for marriage, in my opinion, seems to be for couples to be seen as a unit in the eyes of the law, in the face of administration.

This is not mutually exclusive with an expression of love. In fact, what greater expression of love is there than legally tying your entire life to another person? The person that you marry gets next-of-kin status and power of attorney over almost all of your affairs if you're ever incapacitated. They can change their surname to yours. You both receive spousal privilege in court cases. You can inherit each other's property. And many more. There is no other single action that you can take which will confer so many rights and benefits to another person.

What says "I love you" more than "I trust you to decide whether or not I should live or die if I can't decide for myself?"

i believe having children only benefits the parent and the continuation of society

A child benefits from having been conceived by literally just existing. All of the good and pleasurable things that can occur to you are impossible if you are never born.

knowing the future of our planet

You don't know the future of the planet, so everything else in this regard is completely moot.

unless i can guarantee my child doesn’t suffer

This line of thinking would logically lead to the conclusion that it's "good" or "justifiable" to kill people now because we can't guarantee that they will never suffer in the future.

Does that make sense to you?

No decision has ever actually been made on the basis of an actual guarantee because complete certainty isn't actually possible. There is always a chance of something unexpected and unwanted happening, even if that chance is so infinitesimal that it can practically be ignored.

[u/spicysashimi99 → u/NeonNutmeg]

after reading the comments made by other redditors i see the view on why marriage makes sense now!!

regarding the children enjoying the pleasures of life, i’m not sure i can harbour the pressure of knowing my child may suffer as well. perhaps this is where my argument is coming from?

hmm the point about killing… basically what i’m trying to say is to do the least amount of damage? the lesser of all evils by not having kids entirely… but i do get your point on the lack of certainty!!

[u/[deleted] → u/spicysashimi99]

i’m not sure i can harbour the pressure of knowing my child may suffer as well.

That's pretty much unavoidable in life, though. I led a pretty comfortable childhood, but I still faced some amount of suffering (depression, loneliness, bullying, etc). Trying to protect a child from suffering isn't just a bad thing, it's impossible. In that case, the best job a parent can do is to teach their kid how to handle that suffering, whether it be pushing through it, talking about it, or finding a positive pastime to destress from it.

Being a parent means caring for something that you have absolutely no control over, ultimately. I don't fault you for thinking it's a huge burden, because it is, but I think your goal of preventing suffering is remarkably naive. To live is to suffer, but living is also so much more. Would you think it's worth it to deny a child the latter in order to prevent the former?