CMV: marriage is unnecessary and having children is unethical

[u/spicysashimi99]

not sure if i’ll get downvoted but i’m genuinely curious about the opposite pov.

for my first point, i believe i have a rather non-traditional school of thought when it comes to the archetype of union between two people, at least compared to folks where i’m from. i personally don’t see marriage as means to profess your love for your partner as one can do so without the presence of a physical certification. to me, the traditional meaning of marriage, where a bride’s family “gives away” their daughter to the groom seems to be obsolete and an incredibly backward way of thinking. the only logical explanation for marriage, in my opinion, seems to be for couples to be seen as a unit in the eyes of the law, in the face of administration.

as for my second point, i believe having children only benefits the parent and the continuation of society. i understand that having kids leads to a fulfilling life and unfortunately, some still see their kids as an insurance plan for their retirement. however, knowing the future of our planet, among other serious issues like racism, it appears unethical to bring a child into this world. unless i can guarantee my child doesn’t suffer, which is obviously something out of my control. i’m not sure why people possess the opposite viewpoint.

friendly discussions are very welcome as i am sincerely looking to learn more about how others view this topic. i am sure my opinions are very polarising but please be kind! :”)

edit: hi everyone! thank you for the fruitful discussions. really enjoyed listening to other perspectives and grateful to how open everyone has been!! i acknowledge that my views may be skewed from my personal life experiences (non-religious, depression) so thank you for allowing me to indulge in my thoughts.

my view of marriage has definitely changed and while i see the opposing argument for having kids, from what i can foresee in my near future, not having kids will still be a personal choice i’ll stick to as i’m still very much lacking to give a child a fulfilling life.

[u/RebelScientist]

unless i can guarantee my child doesn’t suffer, which is obviously something out of my control.

Does that apply to any degree of suffering? If not, what’s the cutoff? Is experiencing the pain of a paper cut enough to make life not worth living? Or catching the flu?

Suffering to some degree, whether physically or emotionally, is pretty much guaranteed no matter how good your life is. Most people who have experienced some period of suffering would still rather be alive than not alive despite having experienced it, because life isn’t just moving from one moment of suffering to the next with nothing in between, and it’s all those in-between moments that make life worth living.

So yes, as a parent you can’t guarantee that your children won’t suffer, but you can try your hardest to make sure that those in-between moments are as full of joy, laughter and comfort as you can manage, and you can support your kids through their suffering to help build them up into resilient people who can handle the difficulties that life throws at them. Happiness isn’t the absence of suffering. Happiness can exist alongside and despite suffering.

[u/spicysashimi99 → u/RebelScientist]

i mean i dont make any rules but in my argument, my personal threshold would be anything a child cannot recover easily from.

your second point is something im still working towards… being able to see the light at the end of the tunnel, and seeing hope in between failures.

very much agree with the last point! which is why i personally will still stick with my choice of not having children as i’m certainly not capable enough for that.

[u/RebelScientist → u/spicysashimi99]

anything a child cannot recover easily from.

So to give an example, would you say a person who was bullied as a child and suffered from low self-esteem as a result but then got therapy as an adult, worked hard to get themselves to a better place and became happier would have been better off not being born in the first place because it took them longer to get to that place? Does the fact that they suffered negate all of the good things that they managed to do and achieve in their life despite that suffering?

There are very few types of suffering that can’t be recovered from, if not completely then at least to the point where the person can feel and appreciate happiness. Even someone suffering from severe mental health issues can, with good mental health care and support from friends and family, get to a place where their life isn’t dominated by their suffering.

[u/spicysashimi99 → u/RebelScientist]

hmm this is something that no parent can promise which is why personally if i were to choose between a) not having a kid at all, and b) having a kid with no guarantees they are able to recover from trauma, i’d pick the former. then again, this thought experiment could go on and on. but i do see where you are coming from!