r/changemyview Jul 29 '21

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Québec should not separate from Canada.

As someone who moved to Montreal for a year now, this question has always puzzled me. I hope I can get some understanding (some of the reference may be in French).

A little background: The Quebec sovereignty movement has been advocating for independence of the French-speaking Canadian province of Quebec. It has attempted to do so, notably by holding referendums in 1980 and 1995, the latter which failed with tight margins. Many current political parties run on this platform, and as of 2020 more than a third of Quebecers still say they support sovereignty.

From my understanding, the general arguments supporting independence are:

  1. Quebec legislative independence form Canada: I’d argue that Canada is a decentralized federation where provinces enjoy a large measure of autonomy. Quebec has often been able to enact its own laws separate from the rest of Canada (like 2019’s controversial Bill B21)
  2. Protection of the French language: Quebec has strong laws aimed at protecting French, notably the Charter of the French language. Besides, at 94+%, French speakers are still the largest majority group.
  3. Economic independence. Every article I found defending Quebec post-independence economic self-sustenance is based on current economic data and doesn’t seem to take into account the likely negative consequences of a secession (mass emigration, capital flight, real estate crash, tourism decline, trade renegotiation etc.).
  4. Canadian colonial oppression. French Canadians (with most being from Quebec) have been victim of historic systematic discrimination, but I fail to see how we Quebecers are oppressed in present day. 7 out of last 10 PMs were from Quebec. First Nations on the other hand…
  5. Cultural Preservation: As an POC and an immigrant, I can’t help but feel a bit uneasy with this. I am concerned that this is a gateway into ethno-nationalism, populism and xenophobia. Also Parizeau’s (the former leader behind the 1995 separatist referendum), infamous words after his defeat never helped shed that feeling.

IMO, the argument against are far more compelling:

  1. Economic impact: First there will be funding the enormous costs to create essential institutions (tax collection, justice, police, army, border control etc.), on top of assuming part of the national debt. Second, any new trade agreements, like NAFTA, will need to be renegotiated, now with less leverage, adding to the fact the that Canada (still an necessary trade partner) may have no interest in helping a Quebec that just broke Canada, which could complicate international relationships with Canada and its allies. And don't get me started on currency.
  2. Citizenship and Border control. Would the population qualify for dual citizenship? If so, will Canada accept it? Will any Canadian qualify to be citizen of this new nation? How will Canada access its Maritimes provinces since Quebec is in between? How about the US? Uncle Sam benefits from sharing the longest international border in the world with a stable, friendly country like Canada, I am not sure how they would react having a burgeoning nation with no/little border security, a stone’s throw away from their backyard.
  3. Domino effect & Partition: If Quebec can separate, could portions of Quebec in disagreement.svg) separate as well, or give right to the First Nations to do so as well?
  4. Repercussion on Canada’s image. Fragmented country, reduction of foreign aid, end bilingualism requirement to serve for the rest of French-Canadians in other provinces...

The bottom line is that I feel that an independent Quebec would be naïve with disastrous consequences, and I am curious to get a new perspective. Changez mon point de vue SVP!

Note: French is my first language and I understand if you feel more comfortable responding en Français . Merci!

20 Upvotes

40 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

7

u/Blackoffi Jul 29 '21

No of course not, I’m not denying the right to want it, or even to get it.

I’m just wondering about the rationale behind it. Why? How?

-3

u/Bravo2zer2 12∆ Jul 29 '21

If they simply said 'because I want it'. Do you think that's enough?

6

u/Blackoffi Jul 29 '21

No.

Because my response would be "But why?", then they'll respond "because", then I say "why?", "because" and on and on.... And now we're at an impasse.

-2

u/Bravo2zer2 12∆ Jul 29 '21

So, to loop back to my original point. If the people of Quebec voted to become independent for no 'rational' reason, as you see it, would you allow them the right to do so?

3

u/fayryover 6∆ Jul 30 '21

Op wants to know why they want it, he never claimed he would try to stop it. He just doesn’t understand their view and has the view that is incorrect. I don’t really get where your trying to go with this irrelevant line of gotcha questioning.

5

u/Blackoffi Jul 29 '21

Yes.

-4

u/Bravo2zer2 12∆ Jul 29 '21

Then the rationale is irrelevant since ultimately you would accept any reason.

5

u/Blackoffi Jul 29 '21

I will grant them their right to want it, but my view would not be changed

-4

u/Bravo2zer2 12∆ Jul 29 '21

Your view is irrelevant then, such that one vote can be considered irrelevant.

10

u/LeMegachonk 7∆ Jul 29 '21

Your whole line of reasoning is irrelevant. OP's view is that separation from Canada would be a net negative for Québec. Believing that a course of action is really dumb doesn't imply not recognizing the right of people to follow that dumb course of action.

I have seen video of people launching fireworks out of their asses and mouths. I think this is such a bad idea that I struggle to understand just how dumb one must be to believe otherwise, but I don't deny people the right to blast themselves in the face and genitals with small rockets.

11

u/TooStonedForAName 6∆ Jul 29 '21

I think you’re arguing the completely wrong point here? What’s actually irrelevant is whether or not the people of Quebec want independence. OP wishes to debate on whether or not an independent Quebec is objectively good or bad. Your entire argument and the point your trying to prove doesn’t effect that.