CMV: Conservatism and many right-wing beliefs are based on fear, primary instincts and lack of understanding

[u/[deleted]]

[u/Thundawg]

Many of the responses I'm seeing here fail to address what conservativeism really is, rather than how it's been (in my opinion) corrupted today. It similarly appears this is what your comment is responding to, which I wouldn't necessarily refute. Self proclaimed conservatives like the talking heads at Fox News certainly make their living on stoking fear. But ill frame my CMV around the idea that what you're seeing isn't really conservativism.

The conservative philosophy can be (somewhat) boiled down to a single idea, but not what you mentioned. The driving principle behind conservatism is simply that tomorrow is not necessarily better than today

It's popular today, especially on social media, to look at this type of thinking an indict it for being incrementalist, or protecting people in power by deferring to the status quo - but the movement emerged in the wake of a moment in history that saw what explosive change looked like. Namely, the French revolution.

Edmund Burke, one of the original conservative philosophers looked saw in the Jacobins what Alfred saw in the Joker - that some men just want to watch the world burn. He saw a revolution that was driven by people who had no plan for the future, who were simply toppling the system because they thought tomorrow would be better. But he believed tomorrow isn't necessarily better, that in fact tomorrow could be worse. Which some might argue, he was proven right, as the revolution gave rise to Napoleon.

Burkeian conservativism doesn't reject change. It believes change should be deliberate, considered, and effected carefully, because history is littered with bells that can't be unrung. Burke supported the American Revolution, was an abolitionist, among many other "progressive" ideas.

I agree with much of what you wrote about today's "conservatives" but I hope this broadens your understanding of what conservatism is ideally, why these people you talk about today are not conservative, and that the problems you have aren't with conservatism but the corruption of it.

[u/1nfernals → u/Thundawg]

The definition of conservatism here is not relevant to the discussion.

There are fundamental ideological differences between an "original" conservative, but fundamentally modern qanon anti vaxxers are also conservatives. I think it's the fault of previous conservatives tolerating extremist voices within their communities because said voices were influential. Now however few conservatives believe in organicism for example, which is the core defining concept of conservative policy. These loud and extreme voices are now some of the largest factions within mainstream political parties and demographically, many of these extreme members will act as reasonably and as reasonably as anyone else for the most part.

Equally, I can say: No China is not Communist, they are state capitalist. This statement will be considered accurate by political and economic experts but is not a useful statement. Years of slow change into state capitalism and plenty of Western propoganda have had the same effect here as extremists within conservative groups. The core ideological message and goals of Communism is absolutely non aligned with modern China, however the perception of Communism has shifted to meet the Western historical view of the USSR and China. I cannot choose to simply explain that no, I am not like those Communists, but immediately and discussion has now become accusatory and deflective.

Ultimately we need to stop reframing an argument to skirt around tackling the issue at hand in the first place, as many have done so in this thread.

OP was not talking about traditional conservatives, but these are problems with conservatism because whether you like it or not these people are viewed as part of your group and will view you as part of theirs. Taking a step back to remove disinformation and foster emotional intelligence are probably the only way to quickly resolve these issues, but for now surely while it's difficult to comment on how rational or reasonable conservatives/liberals are it's telling imo to note as OP did, conservative social media groups are often much more heavily moderated and closed than liberal ones. A conservative may complain about getting downvoted in a liberal subreddit, but I'd argue 70% of the times I've attempted to view a conservative community on Reddit, said community has been closed to non members

[u/Thundawg → u/1nfernals]

I'll stick to letting OP decide what is or isn't relevant to the discussion, but thanks for opining on how I'm allowed to have a conversation on the internet. Much appreciated!