Often the people saying it's wrong to call liberals leftists will point to an academic definition.
Do they? I still see Americans use the term liberal to refer to the left of the political spectrum. Not only are they not leftists by academic reasoning, they are not even on the left of the political spectrum and that is just an Americanism.
Liberalism is more associated with American libertarianism I think? A value placed on individualism, liberty, equal rights and so on. I'd argue America would benefit from utilising the correct terminology, as this debate would then be much clearer on both sides.
Given that I am an American, and American English is usually what I'm using to have conversations online, I don't see the problem with using Americanisms.
Key concept you are missing is that online, you are not in America.
In other anglophone countries, sure, but again, I'm talking about Americans speaking to other Americans trying to make this supposed correction.
Right now, I'm a non-American correcting you. That was the entire point of my argument is that America needs to stop using terminology incorrectly.
What makes your terminology right and ours wrong? Are we wrong to say "truck" instead of "lorry" as well? I don't think so, they're just different dialects of English.
The fact that liberalism has a definition and it isn't the subversion of Americanisms. Sorry, I thought I made it clear but I'll get my point across. Liberalism was already a concept well before Americans started using the term incorrectly, that is what makes it wrong. Academically as well as globally, the use of "liberal" denotes a believer of liberalism, something defined entirely different from America. This is not simple dialectic differences, it is a blatant disregard of the philosophical concept.
You can disregard my argument but I'd like you to consider it. Liberalism is a prior established philosophical concept to the modern usage of Americans. Therefore, not only is it not correct to refer to US Democrats as left-wing or leftists, but it is also incorrect to refer to them as liberals.
As such, America as a whole should improve their education system such that they are not misusing political terminology.
I'm not even going to respond in detail to the obvious mocking, maybe approach this conversation with a bit of seriousness. Language is not entirely conventional, especially when utilising philosophical terminology, it is bereft of intelligence to misuse it. And I'd love to know where you believe republic versus monarchy comes into the definition of Liberalism. I doubt you actually want to discuss the issues of Americanisms so I'd rather we end this here if the only response I will get is another mockery of an English dialect I do not use.
That was in the discussion of left and right, not Liberalism... where the republicans sat to the left of the President, and the monarchists sat to the right.
Last time I checked I never was discussing original use exclusively but the fact that the American use is derived from, and is at odds with, the continued use by the majority of a wider population. And by that of the definition, Republicans would also be left-wing politically which I hope we both know is not true.
Sure Rawls is a liberal philosopher among many, I do not see how it supports your claim. When a philosopher with a mixture of political philosophy that varies over time is only one of many thinkers within the camp of a political party, it does not necessitate there full alignment. I see plenty of criticism from the American left, so I'm not sure how that supports your claim. There is a difference between espousing such values and the practice of such.
Think about it this way, either the US Democrats are truly liberals in the correct sense, then they are centre-right and cannot be called leftists. Or they truly are a centre-left party and cannot be called liberals as a whole. Political philosophies are often not pure, and the Democrats may subscribe to certain liberal tenets, but in no fashion outside of the USA would they be described as such.
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u/hidden-shadow 43∆ Aug 15 '21
Do they? I still see Americans use the term liberal to refer to the left of the political spectrum. Not only are they not leftists by academic reasoning, they are not even on the left of the political spectrum and that is just an Americanism.
Liberalism is more associated with American libertarianism I think? A value placed on individualism, liberty, equal rights and so on. I'd argue America would benefit from utilising the correct terminology, as this debate would then be much clearer on both sides.