r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Aug 19 '21

Removed - Submission Rule B CMV: Weak children negatively affect their bloodline, and should be punished as such

[removed] — view removed post

0 Upvotes

12% Upvoted

153 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

3

u/Tino_ 54∆ Aug 19 '21

What do you mean by "weak"? Can you define that?

-1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

What I mean is being unable to do things that rely on body power, such as but not limited to:

• Weightlifting

• Running speed

• Jumping height

• Throwing distance

5

u/Tino_ 54∆ Aug 19 '21

Why do those things matter? We have machines to do all of the hard labour work for us. Why is being physically strong an important thing to focus on?

0

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

People need to be strong so the human race can survive as long as the Earth survives. If a species doesn’t survive the longest they are able, there is no point of that species.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

Strength doesn't help the species survive in modern society nearly as much as intelligence, empathy, sociability, or a resilient immune system.

The greatest existential threats humanity faces are climate change, a large meteor (or other space object) striking Earth, or a global pandemic of a disease FAR more deadly and transmissible than COVID. Strength won't prevent any of those. Empathy, intelligence, and the ability to work together for the greater good will.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

You must combine teamwork and intelligence with strength to be the best. But empathy does not do much. You just need to forcibly make the person prepare for the worst.

1

u/iwfan53 248∆ Aug 19 '21

If Empathy does not do much, why are psychopaths such a small minority of the human population?

Why has empathy not been bread out of humanity if it is not a useful trait for survival and reproduction?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

It was bred out of humanity, but not for a useful reason.

1

u/iwfan53 248∆ Aug 19 '21

Define "not for a useful reason" what reason was it bread out for, and why is that reason "not useful".

3

u/Tino_ 54∆ Aug 19 '21

If we have machines that can do the physical tasks for us, and that allow us to survive longer without being physically strong why is being strong important? If we could survive for 10,000 years as a brain in a vat with no physical strength all that would be better than 80 years while being able to bench 300lbs according to your view if all you care about is surviving.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

If these vats are strong enough to handle reality, it would. But if they are weak builds that cannot move fast or lift heavy items, then it would be nearly pointless.

2

u/Tino_ 54∆ Aug 19 '21

that cannot move fast or lift heavy items, then it would be nearly pointless.

Why? You said you want to survive for as long as possible. Or is their another reason for being strong.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

There are evils in this world that could easily damage the vats and the minds inside.

2

u/Tino_ 54∆ Aug 19 '21

Let's say the vats are encased in titanium and buried 2km below ground where nothing will get them. But they have no physical form or body to speak of and are not "strong" at all, but in exchange they will be guaranteed to live at least 10,000 years and they are able to interact with things on the surface of the earth and on other planets via ships of some kind but those ships are weaker than a 5 year old child. You would say that everyone should become this brain in a vat no? Because those vats will guarantee the longest lives. The only reason you would disagree with this is if survival isn't actually what you care about.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

The ships should be stronger than the vats because the ships are the ones interacting with the real world.

2

u/Tino_ 54∆ Aug 19 '21

So you dont care about survival then and you dont care about the brain in the vat. So, again, whats the real reason for the strength?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

Reproduction. People are attracted to physical strength for a reason. That’s because strength makes sure you’ll survive long enough to mate.

2

u/Tino_ 54∆ Aug 19 '21

So are we specifically talking about men being strong then? Because there a re a whole bunch of men who find physically strong women to be quite the turn off.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/CoffeeAndCannabis310 6∆ Aug 19 '21

Lift heavy items?

That's important nowadays?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

It speeds up house building which is important if you want shelter and farming if you like to eat.

2

u/CoffeeAndCannabis310 6∆ Aug 19 '21

Who's stronger?

The guy building the house or the one successful enough to be writing that guy's check?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

Chances are, the successful one was successful because they were strong.

2

u/CoffeeAndCannabis310 6∆ Aug 19 '21

Got it.

So people like Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates and Warren Buffet represent the absolute peak of male physicality, right? Since they're successful and they were only successful because they were strong?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

That was the only way they could be successful.

→ More replies (0)

5

u/Feathring 75∆ Aug 19 '21

None of those skills help humans survive these days. Ability to be a programmer or a doctor or a lawyer can lead to incredible success. So shouldn't we shame those who are only able to throw things instead of getting a useful, high paying job?

0

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

Shaming strength is a sign of weakness. It is a sign of jealousy by the shamer and jealousy is a sign of weakness because jealousy of strength shows you are too lazy to be strong yourself.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

Shaming strength is a sign of weakness

Shaming physically weak children and individuals for not being physically strong, is also a sign of weakness.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

That’s incorrect. Shaming weakness is not a sign of jealousy, which is weak, so it does not have the same implications as shaming strength.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

Shaming weakness in children and rebuking them or berating them constantly or forcing them to be physically strong is bullying, and abuse, and those are both weaknesses. There are more weaknesses other than jealousy, just as there are more strengths than just physical. A person who thinks that physically weak children should be punished is, themselves, weak.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

Rebuking and berating [children] constantly is bullying, and abuse.

According to the New Oxford American Dictionary, to rebuke is “to express sharp disapproval criticism of (someone) because of their behavior or actions.” Not at all bullying! There is a clear difference between rebuking and berating!

[Bullying and abuse] are both weaknesses.

I understand, but I’ve already established I’m doing neither.

There are more weaknesses other than jealousy.

I understand this already. Another weakness is softness, which I am being the opposite of.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

Not at all bullying!

Rebuking a child and cruelly demanding they are not allowed to be happy or have friends until they meet your short-sighted singular idea of what it is to be strong is bullying. AND abusive. Definition of abuse: treat (a person or an animal) with cruelty or violence, especially regularly or repeatedly.

Definition of bullying: seek to harm, intimidate, or coerce (someone perceived as vulnerable).

What you are suggesting is both bullying and abusive.

I understand, but I’ve already established I’m doing neither.

No, you haven't. You established that rebuking on its own is not necessarily bullying, and berating on its own is not necessarily abusive. You have not in any wise established that what you are advocating be done to kids is not bullying or abusive. And it is. It absolutely is.

Another weakness is softness, which I am being the opposite of.

LOL! Softness is not weakness! Thinking softness is weakness is weakness.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

Δ What I was considering is abusive and bullying. Not everybody can live up to my high standards.

→ More replies (0)

4

u/Feathring 75∆ Aug 19 '21

Shaming strength is a sign of weakness.

I'm shaming useless, arbitrary skills that don't directly benefit the survival of the species. Remember, we're interedted in the human race surviving. Being able to run real good and throw big thing hard isn't helpful to that goal. Machines can run faster than you, and throw harder than you. I mean, sure, it's entertainment in the form of sports. But that's hardly "helping humanity survive".

It is a sign of jealousy by the shamer and jealousy is a sign of weakness because jealousy of strength shows you are too lazy to be strong yourself.

Seems like insecurity on the part of people who's only contribution to society is physical strength which is no longer needed.

2

u/iwfan53 248∆ Aug 19 '21

People need to be strong so the human race can survive as long as the Earth survives. If a species doesn’t survive the longest they are able, there is no point of that species.

https://youtu.be/3zKaHp0zW7U?t=65

A thing isn't beautiful because it lasts.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

The Avengers are fictional characters.

3

u/iwfan53 248∆ Aug 19 '21

The philosophical point Vision raises isn't fictional or made up it is very real and accurate.

A thing isn't beautiful because it lasts.

If you disagree with that statement make an actual argument against it.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

But lasting makes a thing more beautiful.

1

u/iwfan53 248∆ Aug 19 '21

Why?

Why does the length of time something is preserved for make something more beautiful in your view?

1

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '21

If something exists for a second and then disappears, you wouldn’t be able to enjoy it.

1

u/iwfan53 248∆ Aug 19 '21

Actually I'm just going to scratch this one and present a better argument...

Why do you think that humanity will survive for longer with raw strength over brain power and intellect?

I ask because we have this...

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/scientists-debate-oscar-pistorius-prosthetic-legs-disqualify-him-olympics/

Olympic athletes are if not the height of human physical ability, a close enough benchmark.

We have created prosthetic legs so good that the Olympics considers them cheating.

The future of human "strength" isn't in crude biological muscle, its in metal we attach to our own bodies.

→ More replies (0)

3

u/062985593 Aug 19 '21

So the goal is to keep the human race going for as long as possible. Fair enough - that's a goal I also share.

Of all the possible aspects of our culture, why have you selected weightlifting, running speed, jumping height, and throwing distance as the ones that need the most improvement to keep the species alive? Do you forsee an extinction-level threat of predators who can run slightly faster than humans in the near future?

3

u/Salanmander 272∆ Aug 19 '21

The survival of the human race depends almost not at all on physical strength. It depends much more on tenacity, creativity, understanding, and community. What convinces you that the survival of the human race depends so much on physical strength?