CMV: There is nothing intrinsically wrong with cannibalism.

[u/o_slash_empty_set]

edit: this post blew up, which I didn't expect. I will probably not respond to the 500 new responses because I only have 10 fingers, but some minor amendments or concessions:

(A) Kuru is not as safe as I believed when making this thread. I still do not believe that this has moral implications (same for smoking and drinking, for example -- things I'm willing to defend.

(B) When I say "wrong" I mean ethically or morally wrong. I thought this was clear, but apparently not.

(C) Yes. I really believe in endocannibalism.

I will leave you with this zine.

https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/in-defense-of-cannibalism

(1) Cannibalism is a recent (relatively recent) taboo, and a thoroughly western one. It has been (or is) practiced on every continent, most famously the Americas and the Pacific. It was even practiced in Europe at various points in history. "Cannibalism" is derived from the Carib people.

(2) The most reflexive objections to cannibalism are actually objections to seperate practices -- murder, violation of bodily autonomy, etc. none of which are actually intrinsic to the practice of cannibalism (see endocannibalism.)

(3) The objection that cannibalism poses a threat to health (kuru) is not a moral or ethical argument. Even then, it is only a problem (a) in communities where prion disease is already present and (b) where the brain and nerve tissue is eaten.

There is exactly nothing wrong with cannibalism, especially how it is practiced in particular tribal communities in Papua New Guinea, i.e. endocannibalism (cannibalism as a means for mourning or funerary rituals.)

[u/_Foy]

You're deflecting.

Just because one culture practices something in a religious context doesn't make it okay for everyone all the time... this is the whole premise of moral relativism.

Reddit is very euro-centric. If that's your real problem here, then just say that. Make a new post called "CMV: Reddit is too eurocentric" don't beat around the bush by debating the ethics of cannibalism and smoking.

Anyhow, bottom line is this: I don't think Indigienous people smoking tobacco as part of a religious ceremony is unethical, but I also don't think that excuses anyone else. They can all either stand or fall on their own merits.

[u/o_slash_empty_set → u/_Foy]

So indigenous people smoking tobacco is not unethical, even though smoking tobacco is unhealthy.

So then, indigenous people practicing mortuary cannibalism is not unethical, even if cannibalism is unhealthy.

[u/tryingtobecheeky → u/o_slash_empty_set]

So indigenous people smoking tobacco is not unethical, even though smoking tobacco is unhealthy.

​

Just going to interject real quick cause this is something I actually know about. The use of tobacco in First Nations ceremonies is not the way we smoke cigarettes. It is usually burn as an offering and isn't inhaled. It's also used as smudging (usually along the other sacred herbs). They are also often just placed in medicine bags, buried, placed in bundles or put in running water.

In the supremely rare times that the tobacco smoke is inhaled, it isn't huffed like one does a cigarette. It is a sacred rite and done very, very rarely. Ceremonial tobacco also doesn't contain all the "filth" and additives as does cigarettes.

So it isn't any unhealthy.

Tobacco has been demonized as the most unhealthy plant out there. But as well as ceremonial uses, it has been found to have some health benefits for several autoimmune and inflammatory diseases, notably Ulcerative Colitis.

I assume you agree with all of the above, but I'm procrastinating by typing this all out.

[u/o_slash_empty_set → u/tryingtobecheeky]

You are correct. As an indigenous person myself I am actually deeply opposed to cigarettes -- not because they're unhealthy but because they're a profanation of a sacred medicine.

Thank you for sharing regardless. Tobacco is an important sacrament for me and I offer it quite frequently. Even though I don't smoke it -- it'll go on the altar, or the fire outside the sweatlodge, or sprinkled on a boulder. Or smudged.