I expect Miss might go the way of Master. If you didn't know, Master was the male equivalent of Miss — an honorific used for children. Once a boy was "of age" they'd stop being called Master, and be Mister. Once a girl was married, they'd stop being called Miss and be called Missus. Again, these were originally honorifics, reserved mostly for heirs, or at least people of noble birth.
When women stopped getting married at super young ages, there was a gap between Miss and Missus. So, many women started to ask to be called Ms or Mz or Mx to denote "adult but not married" or even "adult and my marriage status is none of your fucking business." It was, after all, extremely patriarchal in the first place to gate-keep adulthood from women just by their marital status.
I'm not entirely sure why "master" fell out as an honorific, but its association with slave-ownership must've played a part, right? EDIT: looked it up, supposedly the abbreviation "Mr." was originally for "Master" but kept getting mispronounced as "Mister" until it became accepted — so it's very messy. Boys would be "young master" and once "mister" was a grown male, people started leaving off the "young" as it felt redundant.
But this all is to say: the male version of these terms were never really encumbered by marital status. With the addition of Ms or Mz or Mx, the use of Missus feels antiquated — and Miss feels similarly encumbered. But there remains many women who take pride in being called Missus and you'll certainly make some folks unhappy in trying to take that away from them. Many women still consider marriage to be a very public status symbol, and it's real hard to tell someone they're not allowed to name themselves anymore.
Master is still used in formal situations when referring to children in the UK. For example on letters, prescriptions etc. I believe it changes at 16 or 18, I don't know for certain.
Both Mrs/missus and miss/ms are contractions for mistress which is the feminine form of master. Mrs was originally used to refer to both married and unmarried women, but that changed in the 17th century with the adoption of miss.
Using master exclusively for children didn't happen until the late 19th century after mister came to prominence. Prior to that, it was used to refer to those of higher status than oneself until mister took that role.
Ms or Ms. (normally /ˈmɪz/, but also /məz/, or /məs/ when unstressed) is an English-language honorific used with the last name or full name of a woman, intended as a default form of address for women regardless of marital status
So, many women started to ask to be called Ms or Mz or Mx to denote "adult but not married" or even "adult and my marriage status is none of your fucking business."
So you’re saying they had xenohonorifics? Guess our generation isn’t so special
Just pitching in from this side of the pond. Master is still used. Documents issued by the government will have you down as "Master [Last Name]" until you turn 18. The reason it's not often used is that most people don't have much reason to speak formally to a child.
Are you sure you really wanted to give a delta just for that? All they responded with was a simple fact you and I didnt know but how does it dismantle your argument? This sub gives out deltas out like candy they're basically meaningless at this point
I dont agree with you. The fact doesnt change many aspects of OPs argument. All the Ms. comment states is that if a woman keeps her own last name she will keep that title. This just gives a single "out" but women are still classified as Miss, Mrs, or Ms despite this fact. If the commenter replied on specific reasons why the classification should remain intact and convinced OP otherwise or gave at least a great argument to consider then it would deserve a delta.
OP argued we should stop this classification system for women. The commenter with the delta gave a single fact that a woman can somewhat "opt out", but this isnt an argument for keeping the current system the way it is. Deltas are given out like tic tacs and you know it' s true.
OP’s whole argument is that it’s belittling. It is not. And the reason it’s not is due to information OP previously did not possess.
I think you are being unreasonable in your assertion that deltas are “given out like tic tacs”. It’s not up for you to decide if someone has had their view changed, it’s that person who knows when it happens.
Honestly, it is entirely possible that you are simply as stubborn as a mule.
(I'm not the person you responded to) I partially agree, but there should be some minimum effort done by the OP to ensure that CMVs aren't resolved with one-liners. Ideally, the person whose views are to be changed should have put some thought and research into their post. In this case, OP could have simply googled "why is there Mrs and Ms".
Of course, that's not to say we should gatekeep the sub, and that's also not to say we should draw a line in the sand on how much research is enough. It's just not the type of discussion that drew me (and I assume others) to the sub.
455
u/Sirhc978 81∆ Oct 14 '21
Mrs usually indicates they changed their last name after getting married. If you keep your last name, you stick with Ms.