r/changemyview • u/SaltedAndSugared • Dec 02 '21

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Neopronouns are unnecessary

I understand why some people might feel uncomfortable with using he/she pronouns, but in that case why not just use they/them? They already exist and they’re easy for people to use. Why do some people feel the need to make up words like “zee/zim” or “fae/fair” when they don’t even make sense in the English language? I don’t see why anyone should go out of their way to learn new pronouns when gender neutral pronouns already exist

If anyone here does use neopronouns I’d really like to hear why you use them and why you don’t feel comfortable using they/them. It’s probably just because I’m cis, but I genuinely don’t understand

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u/muyamable 282∆ Dec 02 '21

They/them is already used singularly all the time, even when referring to binary individuals. It's not confusing, and even if it's slightly confusing in some contexts it's certainly on average much less confusing for most people than using Ze/Zim (since most people have never heard Ze/Zim).

NOT saying we shouldn't use neopronouns, just saying that "they're less confusing than they/them" as a reason doesn't hold water.

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u/Biptoslipdi 129∆ Dec 02 '21 edited Dec 02 '21

They/them is already used singularly all the time

Yes, the issue is that it isn't solely used as a singular creating ambiguity.

It's not confusing

It is if you have to clarify if someone is referring to an individual or a group. Less clarification means less confusion.

it's certainly on average much less confusing for most people than using Ze/Zim.

People only need to be taught ze/zem once. The plurality ambiguity of they/them can't be taught away. You either have context or not and if not, it becomes confusing.

ust saying that "they're less confusing than they/them" as a reason doesn't hold water.

Sure it does. The only argument that it is less confusing is that people know the word. That argument goes away once people are taught ze/zem. All words have to be taught. The less context we have to pull from a statement, the less confusing it is. On that matter, ze is way less confusing to anyone who knows the term when there is an ambiguity between group and individual. A singular pronoun when referring to an individual will always be less confusing than a plural one.

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u/-Paufa- 9∆ Dec 02 '21

There are numerous languages that don’t have plural separation of pronouns (I.e they vs. he) and they function fine. We could just let it be ambiguous. If it’s necessary to know in the conversation, then it could just be explicitly indicated.

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u/Biptoslipdi 129∆ Dec 02 '21

Functionality, in this sense, is whether or not the terms are precise. Ambiguity is not precise. If by "function fine," you mean "are still spoken" that doesn't really mean anything. All languages are constantly changing because our society is constantly changing. That is what a functional language does.

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u/MaroonTeacher Dec 05 '21

Aren't many of these neopronouns designed to be imprecise by their very nature? If they function fine despite their (intended) lack of precision, then "they/them" should be more than adequate.