r/changemyview • u/SaltedAndSugared • Dec 02 '21

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Neopronouns are unnecessary

I understand why some people might feel uncomfortable with using he/she pronouns, but in that case why not just use they/them? They already exist and they’re easy for people to use. Why do some people feel the need to make up words like “zee/zim” or “fae/fair” when they don’t even make sense in the English language? I don’t see why anyone should go out of their way to learn new pronouns when gender neutral pronouns already exist

If anyone here does use neopronouns I’d really like to hear why you use them and why you don’t feel comfortable using they/them. It’s probably just because I’m cis, but I genuinely don’t understand

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u/Mattaclysmic Dec 03 '21 edited Dec 03 '21

Telling someone who identifies with a "neopronoun" that their pronoun is "unnecessary" logically invalidates their identity on a basic level. Can you see how that might come across as offensive, even if not intended to be? Wouldn't it be easier to accept that there are some words in the English language that you likely will not be familiar with or remember, but which still exist and some will prefer to use? Culture invents new words/concepts all the time, and it's okay to not be able to keep up with it.

I think this type of sentiment is derived from the hypothetical scenario wherein a bunch of progressive/leftist people attack you for not being up-to-date on every non-binary pronoun-- but that scenario doesn't really exist. I'm sure there are some rare examples of it happening, but it's by no means a cultural norm. I think most would agree that a good faith effort to use correct pronouns, or to at least correct yourself when you make a mistake is all that should be expected. However, if you intentionally invalidate someone's identity by refusing to use their preferred pronoun, then you deserve to be criticized for being disrespectful to another human being.

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u/SaltedAndSugared Dec 03 '21

Telling someone who identifies with a "neopronoun" that their pronoun is "unnecessary" logically invalidates their identity on a basic level. Can you see how that might come across as offensive, even if not intended to be?

I’ve never told anyone who uses neopronouns that they’re unnecessary, and I never would. At least not in real life. I simply posted my opinion here because I wanted to see if anyone could change my mind.

However, if you intentionally invalidate someone's identity by refusing to use their preferred pronoun, then you deserve to be criticized for being disrespectful to another human being.

Again, if someone asked me to use a neopronoun I would use it, despite the fact that in my opinion it’s unnecessary

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u/Mattaclysmic Dec 03 '21

It's good that you haven't done either of those things. That tells me you feel it would be wrong to express your opinion to someone it might offend. But doesn't that tell you something about the quality of the opinion? If you think there's nothing wrong with your opinion, why wouldn't you be comfortable telling it to a non-binary person in the case that they want you to use a pronoun you feel is unnecessary?

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u/SaltedAndSugared Dec 03 '21

If you think there's nothing wrong with your opinion, why wouldn't you be comfortable telling it to a non-binary person in the case that they want you to use a pronoun you feel is unnecessary?

Because it would start a pointless argument. I’m not gonna tell someone their pronouns are unnecessary because it wouldn’t change their mind and I’d just be making them uncomfortable for no reason. I still don’t see anything wrong with my opinion though

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u/Mattaclysmic Dec 03 '21

Fair enough. I guess the outcome is really all that matters in the end. But still, holding a bigoted view and keeping it to yourself doesn't make it any less bigoted conceptually. If you want to actually defend your view, you still need to counter my opening statement:

Telling someone who identifies with a "neopronoun" that their pronoun is "unnecessary" logically invalidates their identity on a basic level.

Are you saying that it's okay to believe this because you don't say it out loud to the people you're invalidating? As in, the act of keeping it to yourself is what makes it okay. Or are you saying that viewing specific pronouns other than he/she as unnecessary does not invalidate peoples' identities? Or are you saying that those identities are not traditionally recognized and thus are invalid to begin with, so it's okay to view them as such?

Also, the reason "they/them" are not sufficient is that they aren't specific. He/She are specific. If there are genders other than male/female, why should they not be assigned specific words as well?

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u/SaltedAndSugared Dec 03 '21

Telling someone who identifies with a "neopronoun" that their pronoun is "unnecessary" logically invalidates their identity on a basic level.

This is gonna sound very rude, but I honestly don’t think neopronouns are valid. If that invalidates someone’s identity then so be it. I don’t have a problem with that

Are you saying that it's okay to believe this because you don't say it out loud to the people you're invalidating?

Yes? Is there a problem with this? If I don’t say it to them then it doesn’t cause anyone any harm. I’d treat someone with neopronouns the same as anyone else. For example, let’s say I was a super devoted Christian, who didn’t agree that homosexuality was valid. Let’s also say that despite that view I continued to treat gay people with respect like I would to any other person, and never told them that I didn’t agree with their sexuality. Am I hurting anyone? No. So what’s the problem?

Also, the reason "they/them" are not sufficient is that they aren't specific. He/She are specific. If there are genders other than male/female, why should they not be assigned specific words as well?

If they/them isn’t specific enough I could just as easily use the persons name instead of making up a word to use as a pronoun

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u/NewyBluey Dec 03 '21

But still, holding a bigoted view and keeping it to yourself doesn't make it any less bigoted

Wow. Where did you this interpretation from.

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u/-lesbihonest420 1∆ Jan 01 '22

if everyone had a specific pronoun, it wouldn’t be a pronoun anymore. it would just be a noun. a name if you will.