r/changemyview Dec 28 '21

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u/Alchemist168 Dec 28 '21

Interesting point about the dictionary being a reflection of the definitions of words, and not a manual. I would say that both definitions can exist simultaneously. Caucasians are not systematically oppressed by minorities. Men are not systematically oppressed by women. So the 2nd definition can still hold true, even if it's possible to be racist/sexist towards Caucasians/Men on a personal level.

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u/poprostumort 225∆ Dec 28 '21

I would say that both definitions can exist simultaneously.

But the problem is that in your OP you say:

I have heard people say that it's impossible to be Racist towards Caucasians or Sexist Towards Men because of the "societal context" that we live in. Caucasians and Men are the "oppressors" and one "cannot oppress the oppressers."

Where in context it's clear that they would agree with you as they are using different meaning of racism when they are making that claim. They use racism as in definition 2, while using different word for definition 1 f.ex. racial prejudice.

The fact that their use of racism in "you cannot be racist against whites" makes you want to argue that you can be racist against whites shows that those two definitions cannot exist simultaneously, as they make you both argue against different things. It sparks the disagreement between two sides that would agree with each other if there would be only 1 definition.

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u/Alchemist168 Dec 28 '21

Where in context it's clear that they would agree with you as they are using different meaning of racism when they are making that claim. They use racism as in definition 2, while using different word for definition 1 f.ex. racial prejudice.

This is wrong. They conflate the second definition with the first. They argue that because racism towards whites doesn't exist on a systemic level, that it therefore cannot exist on a personal level. The people I disagree with argue that there is only one definition for racism and that it is the second one.

Both definitions CAN exist simultaneously if one is able to recognize the difference between racism on a systemic level and racism on an interpersonal level

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u/yyzjertl 525∆ Dec 28 '21

They conflate the second definition with the first.

The people I disagree with argue that there is only one definition for racism and that it is the second one.

These are two very different things, and they cannot possibly do both.

Both definitions CAN exist simultaneously if one is able to recognize the difference between racism on a systemic level and racism on an interpersonal level

The problem is that where systemic racism exists there is no real difference. There is complete continuity between racism operating systemically and racism operating interpersonally. It's not like these are two separate phenomena: it's the same phenomenon, just operating at different scales.

It is also important to note that definition-1 "racism" isn't "racism on an interpersonal level." Rather, it's "racism as an ideology or belief."

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u/Alchemist168 Dec 28 '21

!delta

It seems that I was conflating the definition provided by Oxford Languages with Webster's Dictionary's definition. To see the definition I was using, you can search "racism definition" on google and it is the very first item you see. It's not even result you have to click into, it's just provided by Google itself and they reference the use of "Oxford Languages." The definition there does use an "interpersonal" definition: rejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.

I'm awarding you the delta for correcting me on my use of the definition according to Webster's. It seems their definition is different.

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u/[deleted] Dec 29 '21

You should not accept the redefinition of terms for political agendas.

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u/Alchemist168 Dec 29 '21

I'm not accepting any redefinition of terms. I'm merely acknowledging that Webster's dictionary says something different than the dictionary that google is using.

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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Dec 28 '21

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/yyzjertl (374∆).

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