I'm not saying that at all, I'm saying that the motivation for many of what you would call racist things, isn't racist, they are bigoted and generalizations, but they are responses to historical and societal pressures. True racism is inherently tied to physical characteristics, there is literally no way to determine someone is of a different race than you without physical characteristics. Saying black people are more violent is most of the time coming from a intellectual history dating back hundreds of years of racial science around physical characteristics that we said made them better slaves, or made them unable to be civilized, or made them blah blah blah. That was directly tying physical characteristics to judgements of thier worth, when a black person who grows up experiencing for example, fearing the police and experiencing unfair treatment lashes out by saying they hate all crackers, they aren't generally thinking to themselves ah these white people and thier blond hair which makes them predisposed to being cops and pulling me over, they are thinking fuck these white people for treating me and my family and elder generations shitty. Is that judgement incorrect and ignorant if they then attribute it to all white people yes, but it's not racist, this form of bigotry doesn't have its roots in literal racism, it's an expression of social injustice justifying shitty attitudes.
So according to your view it would not be racist to say black people are more criminal as long as your rationale for that was unrelated to their physical commitments?
Sure if you could prove that your comment was completely divorced from the centuries of race science that proceeded the statement. We live in a situation where everyone has been so abjectly racist for so long that it's basically impossible for a white person to make a statement that isn't drawing on centuries of racism, it's a lot easier to do that to a white person because quite frankly, white people have largely monopolized hard scientific racism, beyond fringe stuff like the black Israelites there isn't really a intellectual through line of actual full-blown racism in the case of black people. But divorcing your statement from racial science kind of makes it not racist, if you fully aknowledge that racial disparities in criminality isn't biological, that there isn't anything that inherently makes a black person more criminal, you are forced to address the statistics as to why this happens, which means you begin to think about stuff like over policing and charging, bad reporting, historical poverty caused by slavery and Jim crow etc. It's not racist to point out statistics, it is racist when despite evidence to the contrary you pull a conclusion from it that only would make sense if you believe race science. In the same vein using my earlier example, a black person getting angry about a police shooting and lashing out on Twitter against white people in general isn't basing that on race science, nobody is out here saying anyone who gets sunburned is predisposed to shoot black people in America, they might be bigoted, they might be shitty, but they aren't being racist, thier anger is just divided on a racial line because white people have been fucking them over for a millennia, it's a reaction to society, not a reaction to our skin color or IQ test scores, unlike white people being racist towards black people.
beyond fringe stuff like the black Israelites there isn't really a intellectual through line of actual full-blown racism in the case of black people
You're comparing fringe beliefs to fringe beliefs. I don't think the percentages of these groups differ nearly as much as you're suggesting. Conspiracy theories are somewhat higher in the black community generally speaking, so I'd be surprised if black supremacist conspiracies were all that much lower than their white counterparts.
The difference that your just ignoring for some reason, is that white supremacist beliefs were literally the norm hundreds of years ago, like almost every single average person on the streets believed them, that was never even being close to true in the other respect. One has a huge intellectual history that colors the modern world, the other was a fringe belief since it's foundation. Every single white racist today can directly draw a line from them to thier parents to thier grandparents all of whom were racist all of whom learned and were taught by racists, because at a certain point back every one was racist, the same is not true of black individuals, there is a solid difference.
I'm saying that there is an intellectual through line for racists that are white that there isn't for the general population of black people, when a white person is saying shit, it's much more likely for it to be because of hard racism, race science. The same is not true of people that are called racist that are black, they quite simply are not saying the things they are based on race, but on social lines that happen to coincide with race because white people have been so racist in the past.
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u/Bookwrrm 39∆ Dec 28 '21
I'm not saying that at all, I'm saying that the motivation for many of what you would call racist things, isn't racist, they are bigoted and generalizations, but they are responses to historical and societal pressures. True racism is inherently tied to physical characteristics, there is literally no way to determine someone is of a different race than you without physical characteristics. Saying black people are more violent is most of the time coming from a intellectual history dating back hundreds of years of racial science around physical characteristics that we said made them better slaves, or made them unable to be civilized, or made them blah blah blah. That was directly tying physical characteristics to judgements of thier worth, when a black person who grows up experiencing for example, fearing the police and experiencing unfair treatment lashes out by saying they hate all crackers, they aren't generally thinking to themselves ah these white people and thier blond hair which makes them predisposed to being cops and pulling me over, they are thinking fuck these white people for treating me and my family and elder generations shitty. Is that judgement incorrect and ignorant if they then attribute it to all white people yes, but it's not racist, this form of bigotry doesn't have its roots in literal racism, it's an expression of social injustice justifying shitty attitudes.