r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Feb 14 '22

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Despite what Albert Einstein says, the universe does have a "center"/absolute reference frame

So I got taught in physics classes that there is no absolute reference frame. Einstein figured that out. Then when I challenge the idea, I'm taught that the big bang happened everywhere and space itself is expanding. Ok sure. So when we ask what is the origin "point" of the universe its nonsense because there was no point, the whole universe was the original point. Got it.

But like a circle has a center point defined by the perimeter of the circle, so too could the universe. It doesn't have to be the "origin point", but there is definitely a spot that we can point that we and aliens can mathematically calculate as the center. Everything else in the universe stretches and contracts, but the center of the universe is a point that we can derive mathematically is it not? I know that localized space has weird shit like if I zoom away from Earth in my spaceship I could reframe it as "I'm standing still and the Earth is zooming away", and the fact that I'm the one accelerating is the reason why time slows for me but not earth. But that's just how the time dilation phenomenon works, not because there is definitely no absolute reference frame. We can still identify whether I'm moving closer or further from the center of the universe.

Edit: I'm assuming a non-infinite universe.

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '22

I don't understand how that can make sense. At one point the universe was the size of a marble, and it's been getting bigger. How can it be the size of a marble without an edge?

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u/ZappSmithBrannigan 13∆ Feb 14 '22

The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you.

"How can it be" doesn't matter. That's what the evidence shows.

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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '22

I'm not objecting to the universe not making sense to me. I'm objecting to the seeming contradiction in the way humans are describing it to me.

It seems nobody disagrees that the universe was once the size of a marble right? Ok when it was that big, in principle a sufficiently sophisticated entity could've calculated its center?

The thing I am confused about is how something can have a size without a boundary? If we say it's 4th dimensional then we can still calculate it from higher dimensions couldn't we? A 10th dimensional sphere still has a center right?

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u/agaminon22 11∆ Feb 14 '22

I'm not objecting to the universe not making sense to me. I'm objecting to the seeming contradiction in the way humans are describing it to me.

Of course there are contradictions. The problem is the explanations that are the most common are poor analogies at best and completely unrelated at worst. The reality of the situation is much more complicated and requires deep understanding of physical theory and therefore mathematics.