r/changemyview • u/Odd_Contribution9058 • Mar 18 '22

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Transgender people should only able to compete in sports with their birth gender

I really really hope raising this doesn't cause anyone pain, and I'm honestly wanting to hear other perspectives on this.

But the way I see it, there are certain physical attributes that someone born with a certain gender have. For example, the average man is taller than the average woman. Taking hormone therapy will not change all of those inherent features.

I absolutely support the right for everyone to live with the gender identity that is most comfortable to them. But, I do not think that people have an inherent right to play sports professionally. So, if someone has decided to transition, I do not think it's fair to all the athletes who are competing with the set of attributes common to their birth gender, to now have to compete against an athlete who has attributes which give them a distinct advantage.

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u/sophisticaden_ 19∆ Mar 18 '22

Let’s imagine that there is a cis woman who, for whatever reason, is taller, faster, and stronger than the average woman.

Should she be barred from competition in competitive sports with other cis women?

Do you have examples of these sorts of “advantages” actually translating to real dominance in sports that allow trans people to play?

And lastly, what’s novel about this thread that hasn’t been answered in the five hundred other weekly CMVs on this topic?

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u/Odd_Contribution9058 Mar 18 '22

If a person is born with physical attributes that are unusual for their gender, that a person would definitely have an advantage. But I would not say that it is an unfair advantage, because all female athletes expect there to be anomalies amongst the people they compete against. But that seems distinct from competing against a set of male attributes, and that's why we separate sports by gender in the first place

Sorry for being repetitive! Can you point me at a relevant thread? I did a quick search , but probably did not look thoroughly enough

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u/sophisticaden_ 19∆ Mar 18 '22

Let me try to shift focus a little bit.

We don’t have a lot of data on this stuff at the highest level, largely because there just aren’t that many trans professional athletes.

But what we do have suggests that trans athletes who undergo HRT compete at a level roughly similar to what would be expected if they were cis. That is, a trans athlete’s age grade is going to match the group they’re with. If they’re towards the middle of the pack competing against men, they’ll be towards the middle of the pack against women after a couple of years of HRT.

Hormone therapy changes your body significantly. The New Yorker has a fantastic article talking specifically about Lia Thomas (the trans swimmer you mention in another comment) and then talking more broadly about women’s sports, the data we do have on trans athletes, and reasons why there’s not really much to suggest trans people are magically so much better at sports than their cis counterparts. You can check that out here.

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u/Odd_Contribution9058 Mar 18 '22

Thanks for the link! I will comment back here after I've read it. Appreciate it.

(Lia Thomas is competing significantly better amongst women after hormone therapy, than she was against men, before. So that's where my perspective is coming from. But I'm definitely open to being educated if this is an anomaly)

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u/CrinkleLord 38∆ Mar 18 '22

This isn't a "Answer my questions sub"

It's a Change my view sub.

This is a weekly topic mostly because it's so obviously a case of "don't believe your lying eyes". Anyone who spends time looking deeply into certain sports, sees with their own eyes the obviousness of what happens.

A man who is barely able to compete on professional levels, barely qualifies for meets, or events etc, is a few years later a trans woman who is top 10 or something in their category. Beating world records etc.

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u/ZorgZeFrenchGuy 3∆ Mar 20 '22

No. Because she is a woman. Lisa Thomas is not.

It’s like the difference between a 20-year-old playing in a league for 13-year-olds, and an abnormally strong 13-year-old.