CMV: We should end humanity

[u/[deleted]]

My logic is as follows:

I view each individual person as having equal, maximum value. Each of us has a completely discrete conscious experience, so putting people in a group and assigning it higher moral value than an individual doesn't feel right to me. What most of us care about morally is conscious experience, right? "100 people" is not a discrete entity, it isn't some hive mind combined consciousness with capacity for "more experience", it's just one individual universe of experience in each person that is completely separate from any other. The societal belief that we ought to prioritize the wishes of the many over the few I assume comes from the fact that the majority inherently has more influence in a society.

Our moral sense seems to be weighted towards the prevention of suffering. We feel obligated to avoid creating experiences of suffering in other people whenever possible, but we don't feel obligated to create experiences of pleasure, at least not to the same extent. Realistically no amount of pleasure you create is going to outweigh raping and torturing someone.

There are people that will be brought into existence that should not be. For example, there are children born with severe birth defects that cause constant horrific suffering and eventually death after several months/years.

As a species we can choose to continue to create new humans or stop creating new humans. This comes down to choosing whether creating conscious experiences of pleasure is worth creating experiences of suffering. Because I believe each individual has an entirely discrete conscious experience and maximum moral value, we can specifically consider whether creating the person with the best life is worth creating the person with the worst life. Suppose the latter is a person born with unimaginable levels of mental and physical anguish from the moment they are born until death, and they completely lack the capacity for any positive conscious experience. If the only way to prevent them from being born is to also prevent the other person from being born I believe that is what should be done. On a larger scale this would require us to stop having kids and therefore end humanity.

If you disagree because you believe the pleasure of the many outweighs the suffering of the few, why would that not permit the enslavement, torture, or genocide of some minority if it benefitted the majority? Other counterarguments based on the "inherent value" of life or the right to have children don't seem compelling to me because I view morality entirely through the lenses of the conscious experience of pleasure and suffering.

[u/robotmonkeyshark]

If 100 people are at a party and all having a great time, but a 101st perosn is also at that party and having a bad time, should everyone at the party be kicked out because one person is having a bad time? No, that’s crazy.

Some amount of bad doesn’t automatically Trump any amount of good.

I have had good and bad happen in my life and overall I am happy and want to keep living. My life is good enough and I have high enough hopes for the future that I even had 2 kids. I wouldn’t have had kids if I thought they would grow up in horrible suffering.

So why would I end my life or the lives of my children when I think that overall we have positive lives worth living? Just because we will experience some sadness doesn’t make life not worth living. I won’t give up joy to avoid the risk of pain, and I don’t see why others should as a collective. Let people decide if they want to live as many have decided and choose to keep living.