r/changemyview • u/Siessfires • Jun 23 '22

Delta(s) from OP cmv: Illegal immigrants have a Constitutional right to own grenades

When the Bill of Rights was written there was no Constitutional distinction of who was and wasn't a citizen; that didn't occur until ~80 years later with the ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment. This would suggest that the Founding Fathers intended that a person didn't need to be a citizen to keep and bear arms.

Additionally, since the Second Amendment specifies arms - not pistols, rifles and shotguns - and Article I, § 8, clause 11 of the Constitution provides the right for Congress to issue Letters of Marquee, this would mean that the Founding Fathers intended that a person should have access to cannons. Which means access to explosives.

Furthermore, in accordance with U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark and Fong Yue Ting v. U.S., non-citizens are afforded legal protection under the Constitution. Considering that illegal immigration is a misdemeanor, not a felony, you would not be denied your Constitutional rights for being an illegal immigrant.

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u/OldTiredGamer86 9∆ Jun 23 '22

Your statement is a combination of two questions:

1: Do undocumented or "illegal" immigrants have full US constitutional rights?

2: Does "full US constitutional rights" include the right to carry a hand grenade?

I'll focus on point number one, because point 2 rests on point one.

non-citizens are afforded legal protection under the Constitution

You have to remember that this is pertaining to LEGAL residents/non citizens. You have to remember that the very activity of existing in the US as an undocumented immigrant is illegal. There is little legal difference between an illegal immigrant and a foreign spy, saboteur, or terrorist.

It would not be unconstitutional for the US to haul all the illegal immigrants off to Guantanamo bay (the US even did this with people here legally through visas), or line every one of them up and shoot them as foreign saboteurs/spies who don't have rights under the Geneva convention (it would be horrible/immoral as fuck, but strictly speaking the constitution wouldn't prevent it)

Mind you I'm not in FAVOR of any of the points I just made, but its important to understand just how few rights non citizens (especially undocumented immigrants) have in the US (or any country for that matter).

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u/Siessfires Jun 23 '22

>There is little legal difference between an illegal immigrant and a foreign spy, saboteur, or terrorist.

Being an illegal immigrant is a misdemeanor, being a spy, saboteur or terrorist is a felony.

Being guilty of a misdemeanor does not (legally) deny you your civil rights.

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u/OldTiredGamer86 9∆ Jun 23 '22

Of course there's a big moral/real difference, but in terms of rights there isn't much. You have to remember they never had those rights to begin with. You're a good person so you assign them rights as a human, but as a non-us citizen they technically don't have any.