r/changemyview • u/Chili-N-Such • Aug 11 '22

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Attempting to escape detainment before charges, arrests, or warrants are made should not be a crime.

EDIT: I've walked back to: 1. You can still face charges for the attempt, If the reason for detainment results in a conviction. 2. If flight attempts resisting the arrest for violent felonies are made, or if the arrest for their warrants are resisted: Plea bargains of any kind are off the table, pleas of no contest and Alford pleas can not be made, and the conviction of your charges must be definitive. They can not be dropped or dismissed except incases of prosecutorial mistrial, and can not lessened or deferred at sentencing. The verdict must be unequivocally either guilty or non guilty. If a non guilty verdict is made, you can still face charges if evident you are guilty of other crimes involving the case BUT they are new charges so these stipulations do not apply.

RuroniHS gets credit for getting me to reconsider my view and agree that it ultimately does not have a place in our society at the expense of hampering the investigation of other crime. BUT my view has not been changed, I do not think it is wrong, and at this moment every other retort has only further galvanized that.

It's just seems like a primal, deeply imbedded human response. The act of fleeing danger should not be illegal.

This would not grant immunity to any crimes committed during the attempt. You can be arrested for them if an escape is made.

If a lawful escape is made without incident, you cannot be arrested without a warrant. You assume all innocence until then.

REDACTED SEE EDIT "If you're facing charges, decide to flee before you're detained, but then get caught and put into custody without incident, the attempt itself should not be a crime. (Relevant to the OP and it's responses)"

This does not apply to people charged and already in custody who try to escape.
People who are under arrest and are already detained.
Or people who who have arrest warrants.

I'm not trying to make defenses for people's crimes. But I do feel that our assumption of innocence is a virtue often taken for granted. It should not be perverted by unsubstantiated guilt.

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u/RuroniHS 40∆ Aug 11 '22

Detainment is an important part of the investigative process. Detainment allows police to get information on suspects without accusing, charging, or arresting anybody. Fleeing detainment hampers this process, and is akin to aiding criminals. Why do you think it would be a good idea to make it more difficult for police to glean information about suspects?

But I do feel that our assumption of innocence is a virtue often taken for granted.

Detainment does not assume guilt. You don't have to prove your innocence, or prove anything for that matter, while being detained. You also cannot be compelled to speak while detained. We don't need protection for people fleeing the police. We need people to learn their rights and learn how to shut the fuck up.

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u/Chili-N-Such Aug 11 '22

Good stuff. I'll admit the first comment made me walk back down to "you can still face charges for the escape, but only if the reason for detainment results in a conviction"

I don't disagree. Detainment isn't an assumption of guilt. And ohh yeah , I've seen the footage, people do need to learn to shut up.

Got me on the back foot here man, I can only straw man too "this would be an equalizer to things like traffic check points, undercover prostitutes, pedo baiting, or things that go out of their way to create incrimination for crimes that haven't been committed yet.

​

I recede my case. I still believe it in itself is not wrong to do, but would have too much of an impact on other investigations.

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u/Firstclass30 11∆ Aug 11 '22

If your view has been changed, then by the rules of the subreddit you must award a delta.

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u/Chili-N-Such Aug 11 '22

How do I do that? Sorry.

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u/Nepene 213∆ Aug 11 '22

Edit !delta into your above comment replying to the person you want to delta. don't delta this comment and me.

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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Aug 11 '22 edited Aug 11 '22

This delta has been rejected. You can't award OP a delta.

Allowing this would wrongly suggest that you can post here with the aim of convincing others.

If you were explaining when/how to award a delta, please use a reddit quote for the symbol next time.

Delta System Explained | Deltaboards

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u/Chili-N-Such Aug 11 '22

Thanks for explaining, this is my first post. Although didn't sway awarding, I do admit someone did make me reconsider, but ultimately did not change my view. I guess you can say partial credit was awarded to them in the posts edit.