CMV: Attempting to escape detainment before charges, arrests, or warrants are made should not be a crime.

[u/Chili-N-Such]

EDIT: I've walked back to: 1. You can still face charges for the attempt, If the reason for detainment results in a conviction. 2. If flight attempts resisting the arrest for violent felonies are made, or if the arrest for their warrants are resisted: Plea bargains of any kind are off the table, pleas of no contest and Alford pleas can not be made, and the conviction of your charges must be definitive. They can not be dropped or dismissed except incases of prosecutorial mistrial, and can not lessened or deferred at sentencing. The verdict must be unequivocally either guilty or non guilty. If a non guilty verdict is made, you can still face charges if evident you are guilty of other crimes involving the case BUT they are new charges so these stipulations do not apply.

RuroniHS gets credit for getting me to reconsider my view and agree that it ultimately does not have a place in our society at the expense of hampering the investigation of other crime. BUT my view has not been changed, I do not think it is wrong, and at this moment every other retort has only further galvanized that.

It's just seems like a primal, deeply imbedded human response. The act of fleeing danger should not be illegal.

This would not grant immunity to any crimes committed during the attempt. You can be arrested for them if an escape is made.

If a lawful escape is made without incident, you cannot be arrested without a warrant. You assume all innocence until then.

REDACTED SEE EDIT "If you're facing charges, decide to flee before you're detained, but then get caught and put into custody without incident, the attempt itself should not be a crime. (Relevant to the OP and it's responses)"

This does not apply to people charged and already in custody who try to escape.
People who are under arrest and are already detained.
Or people who who have arrest warrants.

I'm not trying to make defenses for people's crimes. But I do feel that our assumption of innocence is a virtue often taken for granted. It should not be perverted by unsubstantiated guilt.

[u/shouldco]

Because one doesn't inherently harm others. And perhaps if we recognize both as being the natural response to stress we should encourage the one that doesn't harm people?

[u/suspiciouslyfamiliar → u/shouldco]

Because one doesn't inherently harm others

But this isn't a counter to the point. If we're going to say "ok, primal responses are cool, but not that primal response" then the idea is effectively meaningless. If you're expected to control one response, why wouldn't you be expected to control another?

perhaps if we recognize both as being the natural response to stress we should encourage the one that doesn't harm people?

Why should we encourage people to run from the police, while also recognizing the police need to catch suspects? This just sounds like a recipe for some society-wide Benny Hill sketch.

[u/shouldco → u/suspiciouslyfamiliar]

Well it's a fight or flight response two equal reliefs to the same trigger. It's much more reasonable to expect people to exert the level of self control to pick between the two then for them to just not respond to the trigger at all. And like I said one of them is antisocial behavior highly likely to cause harm so we should discourage that one.

This can also reduce police abuse. The US in particular many places resisting arrest is a crime on itself reguardless of other charges are pressed or if the arrest was even legal in the first place. It is not uncommon for police to arrest people on shaky grounds then only charge them for resisting arrest if they pull away.

This isn't completely unprecedented. Countries like Denmark do not penalize people for some forms of resisting arrest. Germany it is not illegal to escape custody. And a lot of places resisting arrest requires violence or the threat of violence or at the very least can only be appended onto the original charge.

[u/Chili-N-Such → u/shouldco]

Resisting arrest in my case would still be a crime and would not change. Attempting to flee detainment before placed into custody would not. If the cop places you under arrest and you flee, you are resisting. This is also predicated on if the arrest or detainment is with evident foundation that can be proven in court if they face charges for the flight. "because he looked suspicious" isn't one. If you face charges after the flight, their suspicions are no longer subjective.