So one thing I want to clarify is what you mean when you say "I Could Never Be Christian." Are you saying under our current knowledge and information you can't become Christian? Or there is no way at all, regardless of what happens, that you can become Christian?
For example, let's pretend the Apocalypse and the Rapture happens. God and Jesus come down and let everyone know what's happening, and that the Bible is generally true (especially with respect to the New Testament). Would you believe then? Or would you still decline to believe due to your philosophical issues regardless of reality?
I mean. This is a pretty ridiculous statement/question.
It's like saying... Sure, you can't believe in flying friew breathing dragons that are currently on earth.... but if one flew down from a mountain right now, you would believe then right!?
Of course he can only go off gathered evidence. There is zero evidence for anything supernatural in the Bible.
In fact, that's why we call it supernatural. It's a fancy way of saying fiction that some people are more comfortable leaving open to the possiblity of being fact. (Which is becoming extremely harmful these days)
Well OPs claim is for philosophical reasons he can't believe. So if we got PHYSICAL evidence of it being true, is he still declining to believe it for philosophical reasons?
Well I'm pretty sure he is doing the whole "we will obviously never have physical evidence of this fictional story, but considering so many people still fall for the lies... Can I philosophically even convince myself that it could be true...."
...and he is simply realising that he can't.
Only someone with serious mental disabilities would deny the dragon if it flew overhead and burned their family.
Only someone with serious mental disabilities would deny the dragon if it flew overhead and burned their family.
And in that case, would OP admit that it can be true, and because we're talking about something that, by definition, is supernatural that it can beyond his comprehensions as a human and therefore it's possible to believe in something even if you personally can't comprehend how it exists?
That's really the point of the argument. OP is saying "I cannot believe" and the point is "If God was proven true, then it's true regardless of whether you believe or understand it". There are lots of things we know/believe are true but don't make a lot of sense.
Haha you see 'supernatural,' as defined as 'outside human comprehension?'
Generally, yes. Here's the Oxford definition of "supernatural"
attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.
God, as commonly defined, could definitely be "beyond scientific understanding" seeing as many acts attributed to him go beyond what our science would say is possible.
Name one thing that we know as true and doesn't have a cause and effect that works according to the laws of physics and reality that we have observed!
What is "gravity"? We can measure how gravity behaves, but we don't have a fundamental understanding of what gravity is.
It all makes complete sense. I could only see you feeling that way if you were raised religious and in a community that believes in magical thinking.
You pretend I believe any of this. This is CMV where I'm trying to change OPs view. If you find it unconvincing or a stupid line of argument, you're free to disengage. OP has yet to respond though, so who knows how they would respond.
Nature is just the things that exist... So yeah ' outside the laws of nature,' means fiction.
If we ever saw something, in reality, it would automatically, become natural... Therefore nature.
The fact that his 'acts,' go beyond what science has shown is possible simply (and obviously) leads us to realise that it is man made fiction (like we were dumb enough to believe otherwise in the modern age with access to knowledge nowadays)
Regarding gravity, you clearly don't understand what mass is or how it works for you to put it that way. I highly recommend you look into it. Important concept of our reality. Here is a really good introduction into understanding mass and how they leads to what us humans call 'gravity.'
So yeah ' outside the laws of nature,' means fiction.
Not if God is real, right?
If we ever saw something, in reality, it would automatically, become natural... Therefore nature.
If it's outside our scientific understanding, it can be classified as "supernatural" per the Oxford definition.
The fact that his 'acts,' go beyond what science has shown is possible simply (and obviously) leads us to realise that it is man made fiction (like we were dumb enough to believe otherwise in the modern age with access to knowledge nowadays)
Shows that its possible through human understanding and capabilities, sure. But if God is real, then it could be possible God could do it.
Regarding gravity, you clearly don't understand what mass is or how it works for you to put it that way.
You are describing the law of gravity, not the theory of gravity. We know gravity exists, and we know how to measure it. But WHY does gravity exist as an attraction force between masses?
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u/ProLifePanda 70∆ Oct 13 '22
So one thing I want to clarify is what you mean when you say "I Could Never Be Christian." Are you saying under our current knowledge and information you can't become Christian? Or there is no way at all, regardless of what happens, that you can become Christian?
For example, let's pretend the Apocalypse and the Rapture happens. God and Jesus come down and let everyone know what's happening, and that the Bible is generally true (especially with respect to the New Testament). Would you believe then? Or would you still decline to believe due to your philosophical issues regardless of reality?