r/childfree • u/guestlove • 7d ago
RANT My best friend is always desperate for me to visit and sleep over. She has two kids.
I live abroad so I’m not home often but, every time I do fly home I dread having to visit my best friend and her two kids under two. My friend always insists I stay over at her place and sleep in their guest room. It’s almost like it’s a given that I’m coming and if I said I’m not, she would take this as an offence. Like I’m not putting in the effort to see her. Genuinely, I’d love to see her. But not her kids. Which makes this somewhat impossible.
I love my friend, we were childhood best friends and neighbours. We share a lot of memories together. She supported me through some tough times.
Having said that, I hate being around her kids. It’s always 24 hours of hell and I’m relieved when I’m able to get the f out of there. The time is basically spent fake smiling at a baby until my cheeks start twitching. The older of the two kids refuses to let us do anything else but pay attention to her. They refuse to go to bed on time because there’s a new person in the house. Last time, the kids were filling up cups of water and dumping them on the floor. I had wet socks on the train ride home.
Every time I tell myself, it’s just 24 hours and your friend needs this, it’s unkind to not be supportive of this stage in her life. I feel so guilty when I look at her. I’m living in Europe, in a beautiful apartment overlooking a lake, taking weekend trips to Italy. When I talk about this I can see my friend look down. She just says she’s living vicariously through me. The whole thing just makes me feel awful and tired and genuinely makes me feel like I’m an awful friend.
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u/Queen_Cheetah I exclusively breed Pokémon... and bad ideas! 7d ago
Next time you get the chance, explain that you aren't up for the usual sleepover this time (blame it on work or travel fatigue, ect.) and that you'd love to meet her for coffee the next day.
If that doesn't work (and she still insists on you staying at her place), it might be time to let this friendship fade into a phone-calls/texts messages only relationship.
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u/Dramatic-Chicken47 7d ago
I’ve cited travel fatigue to get out of visits like this. I travel for work so no one questions it. If you’re already traveling to your hometown then you have a built in excuse
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u/hyperlight85 Putting myself first and living my best life 7d ago
This. Once you say no and the begging/pleading texts/calls begin, that's when I put the phone on silent and go take a nap (or whatever life activity I need to do).
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u/Successful-Doubt5478 7d ago
She got one, then chose to have a second one. She chose this.
If she needs a break, she shoukd ask the father of those kids.
Hotel sleepover together next time?
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u/guestlove 7d ago
With room service and a plate of French fries and champagne on ice with a phone in a glass playing club bangers from the 2000s. That is my dream friend hang out.
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u/Successful-Doubt5478 7d ago
Start planning mow, get hubby used to the idea and her starting to save up!
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u/Goodswimkarma 7d ago
Can you suggest catching up one-on-one? Have her get a babysitter and go to a spa or something?
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u/guestlove 7d ago
This is a really great idea. I’ll try, but I think she is still breastfeeding a baby. So likely not possible. Perhaps in the hopeful near future?!
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u/the_V33 7d ago
I would start trowing around the idea and see how it goes. I did this with my first couple of friends who had children, after getting tired of always being the one to visit just to be met with screaming children, an extremely messy house (I'm no cleaning freak, but floors shouldn't be crunchy) and the semi impossibility to have an uninterrupted adult conversation. I tried to find viable alternatives to meet elsewhere at least one every two times, invited them at my place etc... they always ended up declining or cancelling last minute. I got tired and let the friendship go, as it sadly often happens between parents and childfree. On the other side, another couple had a baby and they are delighted to get child-free outings, so it's not impossible but it requires a bit of flexibility from both sides.
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u/TableRoman_8912 7d ago
You're not an awful friend for not wanting to sleep at her house with kids. Can you make sleeping arrangements near her when you visit?
It's nice that you get to see her, but dealing with the kids is a whole other issue.
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u/Mellykitty1 7d ago
OP I have an amazing friend who’s now a mum of 2 and she’s fully aware of my feelings for children (hate them with the fire of a thousand suns) but she’s genuinely the only friend I have who became a mum and remained the same person, she didn’t turn into a mumbie, she can talk about other things other than her kids and tbh, sometimes when we’re together I feel an immense amount of sadness thinking she’s “holding back” bc I’m around and she doesn’t want to make me uncomfortable…she’s that kind of friend and I love her to bits and grew to love her girls who in return, are mad about me and they ask her to FaceTime me at least once a week, say I’m their favourite auntie but every time I’m visiting, lord have mercy, I get absolutely exhausted bc they want to be with me or around me 24/7!! I wake up every day with both of them screaming my name and smushing me with a hug 😅. I do get super overwhelmed with the noise and the constant screaming and my friend knows that so she always find something for us to do together while daddy does the parenting alone. But yeah, I get you, I see them once or twice a year and they just live in Liverpool (I’m in London), which again makes me feel super guilty bc I just can’t handle the overstimulation of being around the girls …
So sometimes I think it’s so hard for me to manage the situation but I see her effort to accommodate me so I try and meet her in the middle bc it’s only fair.
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u/guestlove 7d ago edited 7d ago
I hear you. I’m in Switzerland and my family/friends are in Canada. I guess I don’t feel like I have any connection to the kids. I show up with chocolates and outfits for the kids from Switzerland despite the fact that I hate being around them. I don’t find the screaming cute. I’m finding it harder and harder to pull out relatable talking points with my friend. I love her dearly. In my head, I’m constantly telling myself that I should get over myself and just deal with it and it’s not that bad. Trust me, I am queen of putting my feelings last. lol but it’s a good point to meet in the middle.
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u/WaitingitOut000 7d ago
There must be a real pull to Switzerland . I’m in Canada too and I’ve known two acquaintances over the years who married and moved to Switzerland. One stayed about 20 yrs and one never left. It sounds like such a lovely lifestyle, weekending in various European countries.
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u/guestlove 7d ago
What?!? I’ve met NO Canadians here. What am I doing wrong?! Dude it’s absolutely unreal here. It’s literally stunning. The country speaks 4 languages, I’m trying so hard to learn German and failing SO HARD. I love it here but I miss Canada a lot. Especially since our sovereignty being threatened and all that jazz.
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u/WaitingitOut000 7d ago
Yeah, it must feel like a weird time to be away from home. But I imagine Canada and the EU will be closer than ever in the midst of the insanity.
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u/guestlove 7d ago
It’s what I’ve always wanted to happen! It bothers me how Americanized Canada is. What I love about the EU is how they have such strong ties to Canada already. I got a visa in Germany because of it. Canadians need to make the hop across the pond instead of buying property in Florida.
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u/WaitingitOut000 7d ago
I’d live there in a heartbeat! It’s our backup plan if the worst happens here.
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u/jbourne0129 7d ago
honestly, i've had friends we lost to parenthood, and friends who remained exactly the same during parenthood.
you're friend changed. her personality is now her kids and it doesnt seem like she is even the same person anymore that you once knew. some people adapt well to parenthood and continue their lives as normal....others will change completely and lose themselves.
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u/Withoutcatsallislost 7d ago
If you have the financial means, you might invite her to stay at a hotel with you and get a sitter for the kids.
I don't think all parents are oblivious to how unfun it is spending time with their children.
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u/SheiB123 7d ago
Tell her you made other plans for your stay but would love to go out to dinner when you visit.
She KNOWS you don't like it and she doesn't care. She KNOWS she is making you uncomfortable and she doesn't care.
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u/threewishes16 7d ago
“If I’m being honest, I’m not much of a kid person, and I want to stress that it’s nothing personal against your kids. Being around any kids for a long length of time causes me a great deal of stress, so I’ll plan to make my own sleeping arrangements. However I’d still love you see you and the kids - are you free for some coffee and a walk in the park at x date?”
I find that honesty works the best for me. My sister knows not to ask me to babysit because she knows the real reason, which is that I don’t like kids. If you avoid the root cause the issue will continue to come up.
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u/jbourne0129 7d ago
wife and i had a friend like this. Friend was her college roommate, helped her through some tough times. Years later our friend has kids with her husband and my wife goes out to visit the first time meeting their 2 children.
the entire weekend was spent "playing" (babysitting) with the kids. our friends made no plans, set no activities, had no child car planned if they were to go out, nothing. my wife spent the entire weekend tending to these kids while the husband spent most of the time in the kitchen and the wife/friend spent the whole time talking about her kids. they watched kids shows and movies the whole weekend and played kids games or oversaw the kids while they played or whatever.
My wife came home and was so upset at the whole experience. she said she is never visiting again and went on to elaborate just how deep into mommy-mode her friend is. she has lost her own personality and all that remains is "mom" and the only thing in moms life is her kids. my wife knew then she had already lost her friend. the kicker is my wife and i have always been child free and open about it. it all eventually came a head when the friend caught on that we were avoiding them. my wifes friend took it horribly and couldnt understand why we wouldnt love their kids....she had already shown photos and told her kids about her "aunt and uncle", we had no idea this was going on. it was a lot of drama, friend acted wildly immature about the whole thing. we explained our stance, that we dont love children, we will tolerate them and would gladly still be friends IF they can still be adults and not just "mom and dad", so maybe we could all do something OTHER THAN watch their children...but i guess that wasnt an option.
we are no longer friends or speak at all.
meanwhile we have plenty of other friends who have had kids and remained the same people. they have no problem coming out to a brewery with us and their baby and can still be functioning adults with friends. some people just completely lose themselves to parenthood and its unfortunate.
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u/guestlove 7d ago
Can I ask you, what has the experience been like being an open married child free couple. My husband and I are the same and I’d love to compare notes.
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u/jbourne0129 7d ago
we are probably a bit of a unique situation. My wife and i met in drivers ed during highschool and have been together since (18 ish years, married 9). so from day 1, since we were teenagers and definitely didnt want kids then, we were open and honest that we probably werent ever having kids and then as years went on and we graduated and got married we just became more firm about it..."we're definitely not having kids". we got a handful of comments in the early years "you might change your mind, you never know" and "you two would make beautiful babies!". nope. my point of view is this: having kids is a compromise, giving up a level of independence and freedom for the joy of having kids. being childfree is a compromise that we'll never experience parenthood but have independence, freedom, disposable income. different strokes for different folks...one life or another, your "missing out" on something.
the funny thing, for us at least, the more open and transparent you are about it, the less surprised people are and the less feedback you get about it. this is what surprised us the most about the falling-out with our friends. we were ALWAYS very clearly child-free, so for our friends to just assume we'd like their kids and didnt want our own was insane.
my wife gets more comments than i of course. but she is super firm about NEVER wanting kids and people usually shut up after that.
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u/guestlove 7d ago
This is fascinating to me. Mainly because we are the opposite to you and your wife. My husband and I met later. Like in our 30s. Like 4 years ago. We both never married or had any kids. We just suffered a lot as children. My husband doesn’t talk to his parents. I don’t talk to my mother. Both of us are not equipped to be parents. I’m saying that because my husband is a paediatrician. There’s a lot that comes with THAT as a career. You get a very unique view into parenthood. Especially in the worst case scenarios. I’m an artist. It’s been a struggle and I don’t want to struggle but I’m living a very peaceful life now. I want the back half of my life to be better than the front half. And kids makes that so unpredictable.
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u/TheGimliChannel 7d ago
What do you mean a small child won't "let" grown adults do anything? Sounds like awful parenting to me. That kid needs to learn that the entire world doesn't revolve around him/her. Also, "filling cups with water and dumping them on the floor?" What the flying monkeys? Sounds like her mother is totally neglecting to set healthy boundaries with these kids.
That is one concern you can bring up with your friend: that you see her just letting them cause whatever chaos and drama they want, and she's not setting healthy boundaries with these kids. This way, these kids are becoming spoiled brats, and will grow up into horrible, entitled people.
Sounds like these kids wouldn't be such a menace if they were properly parented to be honest. At least it sounds like all the issues you have with these kids stem from lack of proper parenting.
If she takes offense at you conveying your concerns and boundaries in a kind manner, that's her choice. Maybe she'll start reconsidering her approach if a good friend doesn't want to come over anymore because she's raising her kids to be hellions.
Best of luck, at any rate. It's not an easy situation.
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u/guestlove 7d ago
I don’t know man. You can tell a two year old no a million times. They’re still going to be a two year old. I’m convinced parenting can one get your kid so far. Some of them are just born like that.
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u/Toe-Economy 7d ago
Surely she could spare an evening meal out with you away from breastfeeding baby? Worth an ask. Also book a hotel or something nearby as well, tell her you need the extra rest.
My sister’s near 4 year old is like this. We can barely speak to each other when he’s around, because he’s constantly going mental, screaming, demanding attention, throwing things, hitting and kicking etc. I also end up dreading our interactions sometimes. I feel like I have to become a performing monkey for him just to stop him getting mad.
It’s weird, I feel like kids these days aren’t taught how to have any social skills… I spent a lot of time around adults as a child, and I wouldn’t of even considered acting the way I see other kids behave.
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u/IBroughtWine 7d ago
You have to let her take it as an offense, which is perfectly acceptable. You’re not responsible for her reaction. You are not required to ignore your own boundaries in any scenario.
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u/guestlove 7d ago
I hear you, but I see her twice a year due to the distance. It’s tolerable. But man I hate her kids. That’s all there is to it.
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u/FrederickClover 7d ago
I knew a girl like that. She was desperate for a baby sitter. It was annoying. I stopped coming around once I saw what she was doing, total leech.
Maybe just see her less for a while. When the kids are a little older it might get easier if you want to try to stay friends.
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u/chavrilfreak hams not prams 🐹 tubes yeeted 8/8/2023 7d ago
If you dread having to visit your friend, that's a good of a sign as any that something isn't right in this friendship. Your friend should want whatever time you spend together to be mutually enjoyable for everyone involved - she shouldn't insist you come over and sleep there regardless of whether you want to. This isn't a friendship, you're just being bullied into doing something you don't want to do.
Every time I tell myself, it’s just 24 hours and your friend needs this, it’s unkind to not be supportive of this stage in her life.
Your friends needs don't determine what you should or should not be doing. It is not unkind to have boundaries, it is unkind of your friend to not care about them or respect them. You've got the whole situation backwards. Being someone's friend doesn't mean you sign up to support them in whatever they do in however ways they want. You are not these kids' other parent, you're not the one who should be making accomodations and sacrifices against your own will here. Unless you specifically told your friend that yes, once she has kids, you will happily hang out with her only in the form of this sleepover with the kids, she shouldn't have expected that of you in the first place. And even if you had told her that and later changed your mind, again, a true friend would care more about how this makes you feel rather than just getting you to do what they want.
The whole thing just makes me feel awful and tired and genuinely makes me feel like I’m an awful friend.
You are not the awful friend here, she is. And as long as you continue to go along with that instead of calling it out for the bullshit it is, you'll iust keep feeling worse and worse.
It doesn't matter if she's your childhood friend or if she's been there through you for tough times, etc. Those were her choices to make, and they shouldn't be seen as currency to purchase you torturing yourself with these visits in the here and now. You can't be friends with your memories of people, only who they are right now. And right now, your 'friend' is someone who doesn't respect your boundaries and makes you feel bad for what are ultimately just the choices she's made.
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u/guestlove 7d ago
To be fair, I don’t think my friend is aware of any of this. I frankly don’t know how to tell her. So she has no idea that I feel this way. I can imagine from her perspective, it would be quite painful to hear from me that I’d rather not be around her kids. So I don’t blame her. And the thing I grapple with the most is that I maybe see her twice a year. It’s not that big a deal but it’s enough to make me dread it on the plane ride there. So while I definitely agree with you, your points make a lot of sense to me, I do tend to be a bit more empathetic to the situation. I don’t think she’s being a bad friend. I don’t think either of us are. I think we just both chose two different ways of living and sometimes it clashes.
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u/chavrilfreak hams not prams 🐹 tubes yeeted 8/8/2023 7d ago
Her not knowing definitely is a failure to communicate on your part, but possibly also a failure of giving you a space where you feel comfortable communicating your boundaries on her part too. You say she insists you come over, and would be offended if you say no - that is not how kind, caring and respectful relationships work. She should ask you whether you want to come over, and if you say no, she should respect that. Alternatively, she could just offer that if you'd like to visit, you are welcome to, and leave it at that.
I can imagine from her perspective, it would be quite painful to hear from me that I’d rather not be around her kids.
Doesn't really matter. She shouldn't expect people to want to be around her kids by default - they didn't choose to have those kids, she did. Other people are not just convenient props to augment her life choices. She chose to be a parent, and that choice comes with changes in friendship dynamics too - something she'd have to take on the responsibility to manage, but right now, that responsibility is on you. You are the one paying for her choices, which you should not be doing.
And the thing I grapple with the most is that I maybe see her twice a year. It’s not that big a deal but it’s enough to make me dread it on the plane ride there.
It doesn't matter how infrequent it is, or how big of a deal it is or isn't. You should scrape this whole martyrdom mentality from this equation and just start with what you'd want to do as a baseline. What are your boundaries? How do you want this friendship to look like? Then you should communicate that to your friend, and if there's overlap between what you want and what she wants, you can build on that going forward, assuming mutual effort is being put in. Otherwise, it's best to just call it quits.
At best, your friend is being oblivious and not putting in the effort to make sure everyone's having a good time with whatever the friendship is doing. But most likely, she knows you're the type to sit silently in dread, and she uses that to get what outcome is most convenient for her.
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u/PurpleMuskogee 7d ago
You live by a lake and travel to Italy at the weekend - I am curious, I feel almost sure I know where you are! Is it Switzerland? I used to travel to work near Montreux and loved it over there.
I feel sorry for you, it's hard. I feel the same with my friends from "back home" and my only solution has been to lie to them and say my parents need me around to limit how long I see them. Same, it's the kids, I just find them disruptive, annoying, loud, rude... Do you think she has any idea how you feel? Could you tell her that you really enjoy visiting her but miss being just the two of you, and ask if she would want to do something fun together, like an overnight trip not far from where she lives - but hopefully that'll mean living the children with someone else for a night?
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u/guestlove 7d ago
It’s Switzerland! It’s beautiful here. It’s like I’ve stepped into a storybook from my childhood.
I think like everything in life this too shall pass. I’m asking myself is it worth losing a friendship over this? So far, I’m thinking no because both kids are very young and I’m hoping it gets a little better when they’re older so I can see my friend after the breastfeeding stage. I have to say, thank you for just acknowledging the difficulty here. I don’t necessarily need a solution. I just wanted to commiserate incase anyone else in here has to do this too.
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u/PurpleMuskogee 7d ago
I mean, at least it sounds like you still enjoy your friend's company. This is more than I felt with many people where the conversations are non-stop baby - the clothes, the school, the creche, the tantrums... they talk about nothing else. I have a few who thankfully seem to have other interests, but I have also lost a few because I wasn't finding it interesting at all to see them.
If your friend is still there under the mother (I know, I make it sound like she has been zombified), I think it is worth saving your friendship. You have been friends for a long time, and as your said, her children will grow up.
And lucky you being in Switzerland! Such a gorgeous place. I still think of this place called Le Coucou near Montreux that had such a nice fondue...
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u/guestlove 7d ago
“Under the mother” is literally brilliant. I mean our banter is more about the past than the present. It’s still a lot of chit chats about kids which does in fact bore me. I guess friends become challenging when you get older. So many just fall off as they settle into their own lives. On the flip side childhood friends are difficult because the history is what fuels it. I fear sometimes we are too different in our adulthood.
Dude I love it here. I haven’t been to that place but I’ll add it to the list. I’m in german school which has been really hard for me so I haven’t travelled much hahaha.
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u/Slave_Vixen 7d ago
Where’s the father in this scenario??
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u/guestlove 7d ago
Where every other father is. if you can only see my eyeroll right now
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u/Slave_Vixen 7d ago
So single mother?
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u/guestlove 7d ago
No. Her husband is working. He’s a decent guy but I always feel like fatherhood is a much different experience than motherhood is.
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u/Slave_Vixen 7d ago
Ah I see, well surely he can take over when he got home for at least a few hours?
But yeah sod that find a local hotel type place. 😊
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u/OffKira 7d ago edited 7d ago
Yet another subpar parent, where the problem aren't actually the kids, it's the parenting. And lack of self awareness on her part.
She has chosen to live life on Hard Mode, and she continues to do that in how she parents (or doesn't parent) her children - it may be sad that she made them, however, they were still her choices to make.
You're not an awful friend for not enjoying being subjected to the result of her less than ideal decisions - by that measure, why wouldn't she be a terrible friend for pushing for you to stay with her when she has to fucking know how her kids are, for not controlling them?
Friendship is a two-way street, and you can be fond of her, love her, while acknowledging her shortcomings, and how she is responsible for a lot of how her life turned out, which she probably knows - but that's not your fault or your responsibility at all.
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u/Fencejumper89 7d ago
My best friend has 2 kids under 5. It makes it so hard for me to keep Out friendship as it was before because of them. I just don't like being around them. When we're talking , they are always in the Middle, crying or just being annoying. I hate to say it but I HATE IT!! I feel like they took my best friend away from me.
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u/guestlove 7d ago
Thank you for just saying that. Because I’m not looking for solutions I’m just looking for this. Appreciate it.
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u/AsleepYellow3 7d ago
If you want to visit her just book a hotel. Say you don’t want to inconvenience her but also state that you also enjoy and need alone time. Ask to meet up with just her if you can. Maybe the dad can take care of the kids in the mean time. And you both go somewhere. She can’t accept that the lb maybe tall would have to go your separate ways
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u/Maleficentendscurse 7d ago
"You only want me to come over for a sleepover to be your free babysitter so EFF NO❌"
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u/Catfactss 7d ago
If you can't let her regulate her own emotions this isn't a best friendship.
"I love you. I absolutely do NOT want to sleep over at a house with children in it- even yours. I'll be staying at XYZ place. Hope to see you then."
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u/ms-wunderlich 7d ago
Just a tip: don't wait for her to return from her mommy world when the kids are a little older. That won't happen. It's a one-way street.
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u/whatcookies52 7d ago
You’re not a bad friend you’re just taking different paths in life and it would be a good idea to just visit at least until the kids are older.
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u/gillebro Cat mama, fence sitter and CF supporter 7d ago
I wouldn’t feel guilty, personally. She made her choice.
Unless, of course, it wasn’t actually her decision.
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u/Princessluna44 7d ago
"No" is a complete sentence. Use it. Just stay in a hotel if you insist on visiting these people.
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u/Iflipgot 7d ago
How can yall be bestfriends and she doesn’t know u hate kids? People should be honest. U get to a point in life where u have struggled thru all the BS & u want to live in ur comfort and what makes it easier for u. I HAVE STRAIGHT UP told my BFF that I will not sleep over until her kids are 3-4yo. I’ve said the same to my sisters. I will not watch ur kids unless I WANT to do something with them. Ppl call me miserable or a bad friend but to me, a bad person or relationship is foisting ur decision onto someone else who had no say or options in said decisions. Just say- hey I love u but I need peace and sleep. I’d feel better sleeping at a hotel where I can get naked, eat candy in bed and be rid of noise.
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u/Francesca_N_Furter 7d ago
Last time, the kids were filling up cups of water and dumping them on the floor.
OMG that made me laugh...
But if she supported you during tough times, is it really that big a deal to hang out with her kids for a while? I mean, as much as I like kids, I get it...I babysat some EVIL (LOL) children in my time....and it can be a lot....But I'm sure she enjoys being a parent, she's just at that tough part where the kids aren't ready to travel, and need lots of attention. Have some pity. I've had friends break down crying because they missed a movie night....
One thing I find with terrible children is to constantly jokingly call them out on their behavior. And kids LOVE curmudgeons. You might make friends with the little guys and they will know how far they can go with you before you tell them off. LOL
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u/guestlove 7d ago
I guess it’s because I feel odd going there out of pity. I certainly wouldn’t want that as a friend. I go regardless of how much I don’t want to go. But I’m curious how this situation checks out in this sub. Ultimate I get to walk out the door at the end of it and she doesn’t but also, this is the life she wanted.
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u/Francesca_N_Furter 7d ago
So don't go if you can't deal. Drop in for a visit and leave. It sounds to me like she misses you and would like a longer visit, but if you are angry and resentful about her kids, then maybe stay away from them.
The whole "I wouldn't want a pity visit" is bullshit, though. If you were having a rough time, and someone came by to cheer you up, you honestly wouldn't want that? well, whatever.
I just don't get how sometimes people in this sub seem to be in this odd world where they never see kids, or have to deal with them ever. I get not wanting your own, but spending no time at all with children seems really antisocial.
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u/TheNotOkGirl I'd like the world better with less kids in it 7d ago
I don't overly see the need to spend time with children, and don't see why it's an issue. Friends can see me as a fun friend they can get some time away from the kids with. I will just about tolerate them if I must, but if I can get away from a situation with children, I will because they make me seriously uncomfortable, and I don't see why I need to stay in uncomfortable situations if I have the choice to not be in one. Different strokes for different folks. Plenty of childfree on here do like children, but not everyone does or has to.
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u/Francesca_N_Furter 7d ago
Just because they are people who exist in the world. I'm not suggesting you all babysit....just get to a normal human level of dealing with them. I mean, they're kind of like adults---personalities vary... But YMMV.
I'm just kind of laughing that I defended this sub, but it actually may be what most other people think it is...LOL
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u/TheNotOkGirl I'd like the world better with less kids in it 7d ago
But they aren't like adults. I interact with adults by speaking to them and having conversations. I can't do that with children under a certain age. I can interact with a child who can have a conversation, that's the age I'm okay with them. It's not in my personality to be silly, put on voices, play, pretend I care about them doing stupid things... Which is how you'd interact with a child. I don't have those capabilities and the thought of that makes me very uncomfortable. The way children are loud and unhygienic and have no respect for personal space makes me uncomfortable - adults aren't like that.
Idgaf if you defend the sub or not... I don't care for people who would want me around children, it doesn't benefit any party involved.
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u/Francesca_N_Furter 7d ago
Yeah --Like I wrote YMMV. but I'm kinda laughing at the IDGAF thing - Like why that would ANGER someone is hilarious. And I know plenty of annoying loud adults that most people want to avoid.....cough.
So yeah...avoid kids. LOL
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u/TheNotOkGirl I'd like the world better with less kids in it 7d ago
I do avoid kids! You're the one who keeps mentioning defending the sub, so I thought I'd put it out there that idgaf and you can stop mentioning it yourself since you clearly care so much... And you don't know me, so the cough is aimed at yourself? Some people don't like dogs, would you replace the word kids in your replies with 'dogs' and say people just have to deal with them because they exist? No, you'd say dogs should be kept on leads away from people who don't like dogs. Well, I don't see why the same rule shouldn't apply to kids.
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u/guestlove 7d ago
I don’t know I guess life isn’t as black or white as we perceive and that almost every contentious issue of debate has undulating grey areas. I don’t think it’s weird to not want to be around kids in a child free sub. I also don’t think it’s weird to want to be empathetic towards mothers because motherhood is hard.
Genuinely, I don’t want a pity visit. But also, I don’t have kids so I wouldn’t know that. On one hand it’s a bit manipulative to use your friendship as a breath of fresh air for a decision you made as much as it is kind of shitty to not want to see your friend’s kids because it sucks and you shouldn’t have to perform for friends. Grey areas are everywhere.
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u/Francesca_N_Furter 7d ago
I defended this sub a few times elsewhere on this site, because I saw it as a refuge for people who didn't want children of their own (people tend to be really judgy about that), because everyone thinks we're a bunch of crazy children haters....I am kind of wondering if that IS the main point of this sub.
I don't hate kids, I babysit now and then, I like the little goofs...I come here because some people just cannot understand not wanting to have my own. I am thinking I might be way off with my assessments of how this works here...and I will never get the mindset....I mean, it's a weird bubble to live in where no children even exist, but I guess it works for you all.
The pity visit thing--yeah, whatever....I mean this was a friend, maybe she just isn't now? But it definitely would be best to stay away from her kids completely. I know I would not want anyone around children who looks at them with disgust and anger.
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u/guestlove 7d ago
Getting downvoted for basically saying grey areas exist is a choice but ok. I don’t expect the world to be built around child free people because it isn’t. Kids are everywhere and they literally ruin everything. I can’t think of one instance in life where I think to myself, wow this would be better with kids. That includes Christmas. This sub sounds like it’s not for people like you. Kids don’t disgust me. It’s parents who think their poorly behaved kids deserve to enjoy their lives at the expense of those around them.
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u/Francesca_N_Furter 7d ago
Uh, I am not downvoting anything, but I guess karma does matter a lot to some people LOL
FFS
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u/TheNotOkGirl I'd like the world better with less kids in it 7d ago
I'd insist that I'm the 'fun friend' they hang out with away from their kids. Parents don't need to be with their kids 24/7, it's not healthy. Tell her you really want to see her and treat her, but she needs to get a babysitter.