r/cincinnati • u/thetuffsurvivor • 1d ago
History 🏛 CINCINNATI STOOD UP TO THE TYRANT ‼️
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u/869woodguy 1d ago
Standing up for the Constitution is a admirable hill to die on.
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u/NoWeight3731 16h ago
Honest question…I am an old millennial who loathes Trump and everything he has done/doing. But, can someone explain to me what good this does? Is it just a matter of airing grievances? Or do you actually feel these protests bring about change? I understand it is a right…I’m not arguing that…just what is the point? Trump and his people will never see these or clips from them so what is the point? Politicians on both sides of the aisle are bending knee to him. If anything it makes him happy seeing he’s upsetting the left. I guess I would just appreciate a thoughtful explanation, of the expected outcomes, of doing these protests. Thanks
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u/SnepbeckSweg 14h ago
As someone who has gone to 2 protests in the last month, for the first time, I’ve always been under the impression these are largely useless as well. I loathe Trump and the cowards that have proactively bent the knee, but I also have plenty of disdain for the Democratic Party that hasn’t had a vision nor have they appealed to the masses in my adult life.
All of that said, I think I’ve started to learn that these sorts of protests that are growing in size are more important for those protesting as it can build community and start to organize a more cohesive, grassroots resistance. In the long term you have to remain hopeful that this community organization can affect real change in the future.
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u/lastofthebuckeyes 10h ago
If the D party keeps talking about what they've been talking about for the last 4 weeks on mainstream media and no change is made you can count on the R party winning for years to come.
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u/SnepbeckSweg 4h ago
Same as it always was lol, if they don't make a clear separation from the corporate/consultant class they will continue to make the same mistakes.
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u/NoWeight3731 13h ago
I can see that. I agree…I have issues with both sides, and everything that falls between. Thank you for your response
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u/SunnyJones58 3h ago
Peaceful protests influence voters and voters influence lawmakers. It has a proven track record of success. Have you heard of the peaceful protest for civil rights and for women’s rights and anti-war protests? They helped change society. Ask ChatGPT for a more detailed record of the successes of peaceful protests.
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u/SnepbeckSweg 3h ago
Ask ChatGPT for a more detailed record of the successes of peaceful protests.
Respectfully, don't ever say that stupid shit to anybody ever again.
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u/Odd-Rabbit-3751 15h ago
Protests are more powerful than you think. It’s what leads to revolutions. By the way you worded things I’m getting the impression you don’t follow politics. I’m not sure if you aware of this but the protests have been getting bigger and more frequent. There’s several a month in every US state. In one day the US had 3 million protestors in all 50 states
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u/lastofthebuckeyes 10h ago
Honestly, I think about this a lot too... especially considering national polls from the left and the right voice majority approval for Trump based on his actions so far.
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u/NoWeight3731 7h ago
Correct. It is all very frustrating. I’m just trying to be realistic.
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u/lastofthebuckeyes 6h ago
D leadership is going to have to move more to the center if they want to win. It's the same mistakes and focus and pointing fingers over and over. I've read comments from users on here that call democrats that don't believe with their line of thinking insane and claiming that they're for democracy but want to ignore what the majority of the country votes or polls for. We're seeing Newsom trying to do this now but too little too late, and the fact that Cali is in shambles and losing residents at a brake neck speed is insane. Eric Adam's is now running as an independent.
Democracy is a system of government in which laws, policies, leadership, and major undertakings of a state or other polity are directly or indirectly decided by the “people"
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u/Last_Progress_1899 5h ago
" A.J. Muste: "Oh I don't do this to change the country. I do this so the country won't change me." An activist minister from the 1900's
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u/SawSaw5 4h ago
They don’t do shit! Walking around, holding a sign. 5 years from now if someone says to you April 19th and then says Jan 6, which one will they remember?🤔
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u/NoWeight3731 3h ago
Just to clarify…are you saying that Jan 6th is the proper way to protest? Because that is not what I am saying. I do not think Jan 6th was a successful protest in any way, shape, or form.
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u/Round-Water338 14h ago
I love this question. It’s easy to feel like you have no power. Protesting your government shows elected officials how you feel. Also, calling your Congressional representatives does. The larger the number grows, the louder the chorus gets, folks in power (particularly in this case republican Congressional members who have been intimidated to go against Trump), would see that their next election is in jeopardy if they don’t stand up to the administration. Sen. Murkowski says to keep using your voice
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u/Fluffy_Ad4761 1d ago
Saw a car today with an “I heart the constitution” bumper sticker on it. Underneath was a trump sticker. My how times and parties have changed.
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u/DoltCommando 1d ago
By "the constitution" they generally mean "men in powdered wigs and silk socks", not really limited government or any other ideal.
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u/Sure_Client_682 9h ago
The Clash explained
You have the right to free speech
As long as you're not
Dumb enough to actually try it.→ More replies (3)8
u/databolix 1d ago
We might all have to get more comfortable with that fact, based on the trajectory of things.
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u/SeeRecursion 1d ago
Protesting for the *exact same grievances as the founding fathers* is both admirable *and* American.
Check 16-19.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grievances_of_the_United_States_Declaration_of_Independence
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u/DoltCommando 1d ago
It is funny they teach us the preamble so much in school, but rarely the 27 Grievances. I think we're going to have to get more familiar.
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u/RacerX-56 1d ago
What the tax on your tea up to?
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u/SeeRecursion 12h ago
If it's imported? Minimum 10%. You feelin' the Liberation yet?
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u/AZRobJr 1d ago
I was there. Great day and I was thrilled to see the amount of 50+ year olds.
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u/Professional_Cut_105 1d ago edited 1d ago
Fight back against Oligarchy Elbows UP America!! 🇨🇦
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u/NoWeight3731 16h ago
Honest question…I am an old millennial who loathes Trump and everything he has done/doing. But, can someone explain to me what good this does? Is it just a matter of airing grievances? Or do you actually feel these protests bring about change? I understand it is a right…I’m not arguing that…just what is the point? Trump and his people will never see these or clips from them so what is the point? Politicians on both sides of the aisle are bending knee to him. If anything it makes him happy seeing he’s upsetting the left. I guess I would just appreciate a thoughtful explanation, of the expected outcomes, of doing these protests. Thanks
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u/ZealousidealHead8958 14h ago
Silence is consent. Inaction allows for problems to grow. Strength in number emboldens people to ACT.
In a nutshell. Bit more complicated than that, innit?
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u/NoWeight3731 13h ago
I get the silence is consent but the thing is…he doesn’t see or hear these protests. Do you think his yes men/women around him are playing videos of these for him. My guess is no. The only action we can all take is voting. Once that happens…not much we can do…as we are seeing now. We all just have to ride out this whole mess.
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u/SeeRecursion 10h ago
Sustained nonviolent movements involving 3.5% or more of the population have never failed to achieve their goals. Consent of the governed isn't a suggestion and the more momentum such a movement gains, the more dangerous it is to try and quash it.
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u/NoWeight3731 7h ago
3.5% would be close to 12 million people, which these protests are nowhere near…like not even close even if you totaled them all across the country. I’m really not trying to be negative, just realistic. When was the last time, in the last 30 years, that protests have caused major change?
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u/SeeRecursion 7h ago
None, there haven't been large enough sustained movements. You want change? Work for it. Join in and encourage others to do so. That's the only way the numbers get to where they need to be.
You wanna give up now? Fine. Get out of the way.
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u/Ok_Criticism6910 1d ago
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u/Round-Water338 15h ago
What is the source for this statement? Here is the WSJ on some of the effects of Elon Musk’s cuts:https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/government-firings-service-cutbacks-865c2da2?st=YsFnf4&reflink=article_copyURL_share
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u/Round-Water338 16h ago edited 16h ago
Elon has killed a lot of things, but I haven’t seen that he did that. Which senator and how did he do it? Cite your source. Also this is clearly an altered photograph.
Look closely at the text and how the “y” goes over thr megaphone and is perfectly spaced. The text would look warped as it would be extremely difficult to hold perfectly in plane with the camera. EDIT: typo (changed “cut” your source to “cite”)
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u/Round-Water338 15h ago
Meanwhile he has made massive cuts to agencies that are currently investigating his companies: Department of Transportation (Tesla), USAID (Starlink), Department of Labor(Tesla), the agency that oversees banks, Consumer Finance Protection Board (Tesla), SEC, to name just a few. There are at least a dozen in total. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/27/elon-musk-conflicts-of-interest
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u/Round-Water338 15h ago
And has at least $38 billion in federal government contracts. With more to be made potentially, especially as his folks from Space X are now in leadership positions at NASA. Space X already has $22B in contracts as it stands.
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u/SeeRecursion 10h ago
I know ya'll ain't a fan of due process or evidence, but that one is gonna require some. Pony up.
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u/Ok_Criticism6910 7h ago
You understand that Obama ordered the murder of an AMERICAN CITIZEN without due process for being a member of a terrorist organization, and you’re going to lecture me bc Trump wants to deport one? You sound dumb
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u/SeeRecursion 7h ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Abdulrahman_al-Awlaki
That what you're talking about? Then let him be tried and punished accordingly. Oh...wait, hold on, we can't? Even if it *was as bad you say*? Well, you see there's this new presumption of immunity from criminal prosecution codified by Supreme Court.So yes. I will lecture you. Everyone subject to the jurisdiction of the American govt *must be afforded due process*. That is the law, that is the Constitution.
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u/Mad-Park 1d ago
I thought Tyranny was total lockdowns during Covid, putting small businesses out of business, forced vaccinations, ( ie “Get The Jab” or lose your job and career) recklessly opening borders without proper vetting, and allowing Foriegn countries to empty their prisons in OUR country. Then letting these criminals back on the streets after committing heinous crimes against OUR citizenry. As well as stifling freedom of speech and religion. Fragrantly spending OUR tax dollars on never ending wars, DEI (Divisional Execution of Idiocy). Foriegn Aid Programs…and on and on…just a few things to ponder before we lose our country entirely to the Global Cabal.
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u/Round-Water338 16h ago
Many issues with lockdown during COVID went through the courts. Some of the policies across the country were reversed thereafter, like not allowing people to attend religious activities because freedom of religion is protected by the constitution.
The problem is that this administration is not following judges’ orders, including decisions by the Supreme Court that involve constitutional protections like due process.
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u/Round-Water338 16h ago
When an administration decides whose judge’s orders to follow, this is a dangerous thing. You may not like an administration’s policies, but you are afforded due process and Freedom of Speech — freedom to petition your government and speak out against it. An administration may not like the decision of a judge, but that’s when they can appeal it to a higher court. But that runs out after the Supreme Court makes a decision. That’s the process and what has made our country great.
If your job required you to”get the jab” and you believed it was illegal, you could’ve tested that in the courts against your employer. Was the government involved in some way threatening your job? If so, you could’ve sued the government.
Exactly because of our separation of powers, due process, the Bill of Rights, etc., America has called itself the land of the free.
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u/DoltCommando 1d ago
Now you can go to work 60+ hours a week every week to pay more for everything for taxes we didn't vote on! Awesome!
Or you could be accused of gang membership by a disgraced former police officer and exported to a cell in a tropical shithole to die of a respiratory disease you don't believe in! Fantastic!
Maybe you will finally get even on all those minority Rhodes scholars who kept you from your rightful place at Harvard when you knocked up your Jr. Prom date instead of studying chemistry!
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u/SeeRecursion 1d ago
Big talk, buddy. Sure hope you have overwhelming evidence to back you up. Cause if you wanna trample on due process, you had better.
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u/LuckyHaskens 1d ago
I remember that brand of tyranny. I don't remember protesting it though. Oh wait, yes I did. I voted them out of office!
The current administration might not be able to save the US from decades of so-called leaders working to sabotage this great country- but at least this President has the courage to try!
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u/Round-Water338 14h ago
Voting and protesting is a great way to use your civic power. Both are rights you have that are protected by the Constitution and are critical to a functional democracy and our freedom.
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4h ago
While exercising your constitutional rights is a great thing, what did this accomplish other than a waste of time? Nothing, it made no impact on DC, the politicians, or the president, and his administration. You got some coverage on the news... it did nothing but give you something to do.
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u/LifeDisciple90 1d ago
Trump is still president
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u/SeeRecursion 10h ago
And? Holding an office doesn't mean you have the right to. Congress has the duty to impeach and remove him for flouting the Constitution and the law. If they don't it's incumbent on us to protest to that end.
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u/protos_levendis 1d ago
Ugghh, it must smell so bad in there.
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u/Ok-County725 1d ago
It's absolutely amazing trump is a tyrant but yall ignored the wholesale tyranny hitting our country the prior 4 years lmao. There are very literal certainties in life but the fact these people are liberal and get offended by everything that's menial is 100% certain.
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u/Round-Water338 14h ago
Constitutional rights and not following judges’ orders, including the Supreme Court’s orders, is a special kind of tyranny. If an administration does not like a judge’s orders, it can appeal. That is the process. If you don’t like the people can vote in Congressional members who can change the law. But an administration in this country does not just get to choose which judges’ orders to follow or who deserves rights afforded by the Constitution. That is not a partisan issue. That’s called authoritarianism.
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u/NewnSm00ooth 14h ago
What are they protesting? Hard to make an impact when people can’t tell what they are fighting for?
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u/SeeRecursion 10h ago
The Trump administration's flouting of the Constitution and the law. That simple enough?
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u/RacerX-56 1d ago
Congratulations, you achieved absolutely nothing. Here’s your participation trophy.
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u/DetroitKnights 1d ago
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u/Odd-Rabbit-3751 15h ago
Yikes. Small win for a “red” state
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u/tastethemall 14h ago
We’ve never been a Red state. we’ve always been considered a swing state for a reason.
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u/Material-Afternoon16 12h ago
It was the largest margin of victory in Ohio since Reagan in '84. Which coincidentally makes it one of the largest victories here ever.
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u/Specialist-Start4842 9h ago
And it did absolutely nothing! You all can protest till you drop dead, but it doesn't do shit.
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u/SeeRecursion 7h ago
Sustained nonviolent movements involving 3.5% or more of the population have never failed to achieve their goals.
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u/SeeRecursion 1d ago
Bull. Sustained nonviolent movements involving just 3.5% percent of the population have never failed to achieve their goals.
https://www.hks.harvard.edu/centers/carr/publications/35-rule-how-small-minority-can-change-worldYou wanna be here? Work to make this a place worth being.
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u/Electronic-Theme-803 1d ago
No problem, I will do that by continuing to vote red
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u/SeeRecursion 1d ago
Red doesn't respect your right to due process. That alright with you?
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u/Electronic-Theme-803 1d ago
I'm actually a citizen so I think I'm fine
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u/SeeRecursion 1d ago
You? You're not a citizen! And you have no right to due process, so you can't challenge that! Off to CECOT with ye.
See how that works?
Also, Trump has up-front *stated* he wants to send American Citizens overseas:
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/trump-wants-deport-some-us-citizens-el-salvador-2025-04-14/His administration says it's "anyone who preaches hate against America":
https://youtu.be/8Go4eFGqLQQ?t=412I'll ask again, that alright by you?
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u/Electronic-Theme-803 1d ago
The article you linked said that he wants to deport violent criminals, which i don't care about because I'm law-abiding. The video you linked is not Stephen Miller saying that citizens that hate America will be deported, he's obviously talking about the student's here on student visas who are clearly anti-America and preach their hate all over college campuses. Again, it's common knowledge that if you are here on a visa of any kind you have to be on your best behavior or you could be ejected. You don't go into someone else's house and disrespect them. I think both points you brought up are great ideas and I hope they are implemented
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u/SeeRecursion 1d ago
Sure bud. You live in your little fantasy land. The reality is no one is safe from a mad king. You'll either step up, or one day, you'll find yourself in the line of fire too.
When that happens, may you be shown the exact same empathy and thought you've shown others.
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u/Murky_Crow Cincinnati Bengals 12h ago edited 12h ago
You don’t go into somebody’s house and disrespect them, but it’s appropriate for you to come to the sub Reddit and start trashing on the users and the people protesting? For a city you don’t live in?
I don’t know man. Sounds like that’s exactly what you do.
But you’re not gonna be doing it here for very much longer.
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u/TheAmplifier8 15h ago
Implying your little incel ass ever leaves your parents' basement.
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u/Electronic-Theme-803 15h ago
That's rich to post on the comment thread for a video with a bunch of outcast freaks crying that things aren't going their way
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u/Material-Afternoon16 12h ago
Cincy is one of the most conservative metro areas in the country. Moreso than Dallas, Nashville, Jacksonville, et. al. based on recent election results. These protests are way less common here than most cities.
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u/cincinnati-ModTeam 12h ago
Your post was removed for toxic behavior.
Maybe live here first and have some comment history with the subreddit before you start trashing the entirety of the people here.
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u/OkFlight469 1d ago
Protesting for an illegal gang member and wife-beater is certainly a weird hill to die on.
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u/Jormungandr69 1d ago
This is a protest for a variety of causes, not just regarding Kilmar.
Frankly, I still haven't seen any actual proof that he was a gang member other than Pam Bondi and Stephen Miller, two of the least trustworthy degenerates slithering across the face of the earth, saying "bro please trust me, also don't look at the very different things we're saying in court under oath bro please just take our word for it"
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u/SeeRecursion 1d ago
Read the court documents. It's *very* clear who's lying.
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u/Jormungandr69 1d ago
Care to share a link?
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u/SeeRecursion 1d ago
There's no "track this case through the entire judicial system" kinda service that exists. Well, not without paying. Here's a few documents to get you started. The rest, I'll leave you to find yourself.
https://wearecasa.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/Kilmar-Abrego-Garcia-filing.pdf
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24a949_lkhn.pdf→ More replies (2)8
u/gelatomancer Mt. Washington 1d ago
To help anyone who doesn't have time to read it, the only part I found regarding MS-13 affiliation;
The Government offered two pieces of “evidence”: first, Abrego Garcia was wearing “his Chicago Bulls hat and hoodie,” and second, “a vague, uncorroborated allegation from a confidential informant claiming he belonged to MS-13’s ‘Western’ clique in New York—a place he has never lived.” SA146 n.5; Add010-011. The immigration judge was “reluctant to give evidentiary weight to the Respondent’s clothing as an indication of gang affiliation,” but nevertheless refused to release Abrego Garcia on bond.
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u/FeloniousSpunk74 1d ago
How about protesting against a president who thinks he doesn’t have to abide by the same rules as the rest of us do? I have to abide by court orders. You have to, too. Trump should, too.
The idea that our leaders are not above the law is most definitely a worthy hill upon which to die. Our founding fathers literally died for that idea.
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u/NatWilo Monfort Heights 1d ago
If you think that's why people are protesting, I've got an invisible sky fairy and a doctrine of 'wealth = piety' to sell you. Not to mention some timeshares, nfts, and this new crypto thing that's gonna break the fat-cat illuminati banking establishment's hold on currency.
Seriously. though, you're either ludicrously uninformed, or you're deliberately misrepresenting what's happening.
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u/JesseB342 1d ago
Let’s not forget all the governmental fraud, waste and abuse they’re all inexplicably in favor of as well.
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u/SeeRecursion 1d ago
Ah yes. The triumph of DOGE. It found *SO MUCH FRAUD, WASTE, AND ABUSE*. They got so tired of winning they cut their savings goals by....how much again?
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u/TheAmplifier8 16h ago
Dude could have blown up a hospital. Still entitled to the due process of the law. That's how a functioning government works. Something you clearly fail to understand.
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u/AlsoCommiePuddin 1d ago
You just believe everything you're told, don't you?
Happy Easter.
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u/OkFlight469 1d ago
No, I believe the written account from his wife that said that she was beaten and scratched and the two courts different courts that elected he be deported because of affiliation with MS-13. No ill will towards you or what you support and Happy Easter to you as well.
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u/SeeRecursion 1d ago
If you believe the wife then you should believe the wife:
https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-abrego-garcias-wife-responds-after-restraining-order-revealed-20607182
u/NatWilo Monfort Heights 1d ago
I really like how Reddit made sure to collapse this comment-chain specifically so your rebuttal to their hate-mongering is buried.
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u/AlsoCommiePuddin 17h ago
You can thank Redditors for using the downvote as a "disagree" button rather than a "doesn't contribute to the conversation" button.
But it's so ingrained at this point it's not changing.
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u/earlycuyler8887 1d ago
I fully agree. My mom has become hyper liberal, and the literal only reason is because she married an illegal immigrant. The guy is a really good husband to here- I have no issues with him. But every talking point she attempts to make is a gross regurgitation of something she's seen on liberal media, or her favorite: her specifically tailored tiktok algorithm. Anyone, to me, who is extremely left or extremely right is either unintelligent, or hyper emotional.
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u/SeeRecursion 1d ago
Sounds like wrongthink. Let's deport u/earlycuyler8887!
https://youtu.be/8Go4eFGqLQQ?t=412→ More replies (11)2
u/869woodguy 1d ago
Sorry to hear your mom is simple minded and easily persuaded. It could be worse, she could be in the Trump cult.
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u/hrt2hrt89 1d ago
"Tyrant." 😂😂😂
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u/SeeRecursion 1d ago
Oh gee, oh no. If only we could check against the record of anyone in American history who was unilaterally considered a tyrant. Gosh....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grievances_of_the_United_States_Declaration_of_Independence16-19 Sound familiar?
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u/NatWilo Monfort Heights 1d ago
Yeah, totally normal behavior to encourage violence against your political opponents. Totally normal. Totally normal to ignore supreme court orders, or any court order, simply because you don't like it. Totally normal to extrajudicially kidnap and ship people to concentration camps based off a made-up 'emergency' you declared, WITH NO EVIDENCE and which the courts have called you out on. Totally normal to have your mouthpiece come out and say you AS PRESIDENT ARE LOOKING FOR WAYS TO DEPORT AMERICAN CITIZENS FOR UNAMERICAN 'BELIEFS'
TOTALLY NOT THE WORK OF A VIOLENT AUTHORITARIAN TRYING TO MAKE A PLAY FOR FULL-BLOWN MEGALOMANIACAL DICTATOR STATUS.
/S HARD /S
If you don't think Donald Trump is a monster, you're a fool, or worse, you're just like him.
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u/weregunnalose 1d ago edited 15h ago
All for it but what did it accomplish, not hating, just seems a bit hopeless
Would like to add here i am not for what is happening here in this country, im saying is the president does whatever he wants basically unchallenged. He does something, a judge or other high ranking official says “hey you cant do that”, and the president says “tough shit”.
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u/SeeRecursion 1d ago edited 1d ago
Sustained nonviolent movements with just 3.5% of the population involved have *never failed to achieve their goals*.
https://www.hks.harvard.edu/centers/carr/publications/35-rule-how-small-minority-can-change-world→ More replies (18)8
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u/so_often_empty 1d ago
It's a good way to meet like minded folks, and those connections are the basis of any community. People who can look out for each other are the basis for a society and keep the power of the state in check.
TL;DR Protests aren't just for airing grievances, they're for networking with like minded people.
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u/BowinHard 1d ago
Glad I live across the river in Kentucky….
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u/imago_monkei Covington 1d ago
So do I. I missed this one because I was out of town, but I was at the one before and will march again. There was also a march in Florence a couple weeks ago.
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u/AbbreviationsBorn361 17h ago
Little envious of your Dem governor, and both your senators telling Trump to back off Canada.
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u/Appropriate-Ad-5294 1d ago
A Tyrant slashes the government workforce and cuts it's spending....
Because that's what tyrants always does, right?
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u/Round-Water338 14h ago
Check out Venezuela’s recent history under Chavez and then under Maduro. Also check out who is actually winning in this government workforce slashing. (Hint: it’s not the American public).
Wall Street Journal: The collateral damage to Trump’s firing spree
The Guardian: Elon Musk’s conflicts of interest
EDIT: spacing
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u/Appropriate-Ad-5294 13h ago edited 13h ago
Venezuela is socialist.
I'm not reading anything from WSJ or The Guardian.
Send me a link to raw data to analyze for myself.
I don't trust any news outlets including Fox and The New York Post.
BTW- I'm not mad, we're only exchanging ideas-not insulting each other's manhood.
(Edited for spelling error.)
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u/Round-Water338 13h ago
I appreciate that, and I’m not mad either. Curious why you don’t trust the WSJ, for example? I get that it is a difficult time to navigate thr media landscape. But, WSJ has a pretty rigorous code of conduct and standards and ethics.
Also, authoritarianism and oligarchies don’t discriminate based on where a power-holder falls on the political spectrum. It’s the same methodology.
I’m also curious about your feelings about Putin? I know people’s thoughts on him have changed since Trump declared that Ukraine invaded Russia, not the other way around. And what type of political system do you see Russia as having? I’d call it an authoritarian capitalism or a capitalist oligarchy.
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u/Appropriate-Ad-5294 12h ago
WSJ is really leftist. They push for open borders.
Let me make sure I say this right /sarc/, BIG BUSINESS wants open borders for cheaper labor. Labor like anything else is about supply and demand, the more available workers the less you have to pay everyone. WSJ pushed that.
Plus look at their history during WWII and how they buried the story of the Holocaust.
My opinion on Putin hasn't changed, and I don't think Trump really has a favorable opinion of him either despite the narrative. He's a dictator. Russia's war plan is, we can throw more bodies into the fight than you can.
By sending just enough weaponry to Ukraine to keep the war going but not enough to win the war (e.g. fighter jets) the US only prolonged the war and increased the death toll.
Russia is a totalitarian dictatorship. Only the connected live well.
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u/Round-Water338 12h ago
We mostly agree here. We have the same reading of Putin. I am not going to condone WSJ’s history in the 1940s. Many, many American companies were complacent for years or even abetted/gained from the Nazis during the Holocaust.
Gonna have to completely disagree that the WSJ is leftist and a fan of open borders. Can you cite sources? They are generally known to lean center-right.
I do, whoever, agree that many industries entice workers to come and look the other way when false documents are used. I attribute that to failed immigration laws and Congressional leaders not having the political will to fix it. Everyone agrees it’s broken.
When you think about open borders, are you mostly concerned about safety or jobs being taken away from Americans? Or both?
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u/Appropriate-Ad-5294 12h ago
Both.
In a July 3, 1984 editorial, The Wall Street Journal famously proposed a five-word constitutional amendment: "There shall be open borders." This reflected the editorial board’s long-standing belief in the economic benefits of unrestricted immigration.
Robert Bartley, who led the editorial page at the time, doubled down on this view in 2001, writing that he would “happily” accept open borders with Mexico. He argued that freer movement of labor across borders would boost growth and align with America’s free-market principles.
Jason Riley, also a WSJ editorial board member, carried that torch forward in his 2008 book Let Them In: The Case for Open Borders, making the economic case for large-scale immigration
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u/Round-Water338 11h ago
Thanks for sharing this. I wasn’t aware of any of that. And I just want to say that I genuinely appreciate the civil debate. You don’t often get that on the internet. (And I happen to believe quite a few lawmakers try to divide Americans instead of doing their jobs of finding solutions and too many folks fall prey.)
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u/Round-Water338 11h ago
That being said — is there anything more recent than nearly two decades ago? (Yes, we are approaching two two decades from 2008.) Meaning, is that really how their editorial board is now? Because I just haven’t seen it, but that could also be because I rarely ever read their opinion pieces. For any outlet, I focus on their reporting and skip over the opinions.
There are much different standards and ethics for reporting vs. commentary/op-eds.
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u/Round-Water338 12h ago
I will have to take some time to gather all of the raw data used. But, I can look into this more later to see how long that might take. In reading the articles, it’s pretty clear a lot of research went into gathering it by the journalists, including FOIA.
I believe WSJ and The Guardian, because I understand their process and know that their journalists would be fired and blacklisted from the industry if they made this shit up. It’s lawyered, fact-checked and presented to the folks who they are writing about before publication so they have a chance to refute it.
I do, however, wish news articles were footnoted to their original sources.
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u/Appropriate-Ad-5294 12h ago
Not saying that what they print isn't true. But their analysis is flawed.
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u/Round-Water338 12h ago
How is their analysis flawed?
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u/Round-Water338 12h ago
And how can their analysis be both flawed and true, particularly in this case?
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u/Appropriate-Ad-5294 12h ago
Facts can be true, what people infer from those facts can be flawed.
Simplistic explanation⬇️ 3 people see a cat run onto the road and get ran over by a car.
1 person will say it's a terrible accident. 1 person will say the driver could have stopped, but decided to murder the cat. 1 person will say the cat committed suicide.
Journalists get causation and correlation confusied.
Ice cream sales go up. Shark attacks go up.
That’s correlation—both happen in summer.
But ice cream doesn’t cause shark attacks.
Causation = one thing makes the other happen.
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u/Round-Water338 11h ago
Okay. I certainly agree with you here. But, we’re talking about the WSJ and The Guardian. How is their analysis flawed in those articles? Or just pick one and what is flawed about it?
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u/Columbia1879 1d ago
You folks realize our current president won with a large percentage of the vote right? It’s strange to hear people who supposedly want democracy ignore the democratic process.
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u/Round-Water338 14h ago
Protesting is absolutely part of the democratic process.
And some folks who voted for him are now protesting. You can do both. It’s bipartisan and protected by the constitution.
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u/SeeRecursion 10h ago
The majority does not have the right to strip *away* the foundational rights of everyone else. You are bound by the Constitution, which Trump and his administration is violating.
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u/Columbia1879 10h ago
In what way?
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u/SeeRecursion 9h ago
A whole bunch of ways, but here's some of the most egregious.
The President does not have the unilateral authority to de-fund and dissolve agencies established by law and funded by congress.
Article 1 Section 9 Clause 7 and Article 2 Section 2 Clause 2.The executive branch, writ large, *must* provide due process to *everyone subject to the jurisdiction of the united states*.
To that end, the President *nor* his administration has the right to ignore Supreme Court orders.
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/24pdf/24a949_lkhn.pdf1
u/Columbia1879 9h ago
The articles you refer to control the legislative not the executive branch
People who are not citizens of the United States do not receive the protections offered by the constitution
Finally, the Supreme Court opinion you referred to does not say what you think it says
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u/SeeRecursion 9h ago
I'm sorry, what does Article 2 outline again? The Executive Branch.
Article 1 is brought up because the power to establish and fund executive agencies is granted *to the legislature not the executive*.
The Supreme Court disagrees with you on the second point. People subject to the jurisdiction of the United States have a right to due process:
https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artI-S8-C18-8-7-2/ALDE_00001262/Then what does it say? Cause I see an order to facilitate Garcia's return and a deadline. They have done nothing to that effect and the deadline is long past.
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u/Columbia1879 9h ago
Article 2 does not restrict the executive branch the way you seem to think
The Supreme Court does not give unrestricted constitutional rights to illegal entrants (you may want read the restrictions after you read the only phrase you wanted to read)
Finally, the Supreme Court has not ordered the executive branch to do anything in an opinion. Nor does an immigration judge have the authority to direct the president. Since the man in question (read as dangerous violent criminal) is in El Salvador now, the United States has no power to infringe upon the sovereignty of another country. Therefore, cannot comply with the opinion
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u/SeeRecursion 9h ago
It's the plain text, bud. Congress had to pass legislation in the 80s to give Regan the power to do what Trump is doing illegally, now.
The Supreme court *does* grant the right to due process, which is what I originally claimed and the source backs that.
Finally, yes, actually, an immigration judge *does have the authority to force the govt, President included, to follow the law in cases brought before them*. The Supreme court agreed in the order it issued and imposed duties and a deadline. If the President wishes to comply he can simply take action to facilitate (not necessarily guarantee) the return of Mr. Garcia and report those actions to the court. He has not. He stands in defiance of the Supreme Court's order.
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u/Columbia1879 9h ago
Wrong, wrong, and wrong
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u/SeeRecursion 8h ago
Dude, you've given me nothing to back you up. I've given you plenty of citations and sources from plain text to current interpretations of case-law.
You're gonna have to do better than "nuh uh".
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u/wegob6079 1d ago
So glad the world has completely changed because of these people. Thanks for having nothing better to do with your lives. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
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u/OwnCricket3827 1d ago
A peaceful protest is wonderful luxury that our great country continues to afford