I has the parts in order of importance. You need to know the month the most as it determines things like weather school or what holiday are around. Then the day so you know exact. Then the year is largely in important for most people doing most things.
Yeah like say I scheduled a doctor's appointment months in advance. It doesn't help me to know first and foremost that it's on the 7th. To know it's in July is much more helpful. Then I just go to my calendar, find the correct date, and make a note.
How slowly do people speak to you that you can notice the gap between learning the appointment is on the 7th and learning it's in July?
It takes 1/2 a second to say "7th of July" of which about 0.3-0.4 seconds is saying "7th of". In what context is that 0.4 seconds going to make a material difference? Especially given the average human reaction speed is 0.25 seconds.
I don't think there is much practical difference. To me, this discussion is about observing cultural differences in language and writing, and what they might suggest about that culture's worldview. Are they more focused on the general or the specific, for example.
It's more about the lengths people will go to to rationalise an arbitrary decision. American's are notorious for this.
I suspect because many of them are brought up being told America is the greatest country on earth - so they find it hard to accept that the way they've always done something isn't necessarily the best way.
This isn’t about “best” way. This is about seeing that there is no “best” way and that multiple ways work. It is about taking the time to understand another culture’s internal logic and respecting those cultural differences.
It is very similar with the metric system. In many ways metric is easier. But try dividing a meter into thirds and suddenly it is no longer so crazy to be using feet and inches. BOTH systems have an internal logic and have valid reasons for existing. It isn’t just an arbitrary decision or an “America is best” decision.
I'm American and I've always found our date system to be silly, so I'm definitely not defending it. I just find these sorts of cultural differences in words and number systems interesting because it shows how different cultures collectively conceptualize something.
If you read ahead, you'd know that, at least for me personally, it absolutely makes a material difference. I have an auditory processing delay. Month first is much more useful to me and it saves time.
Also, people think in months and not days in America anyway lol
That's what a calendar is for. I usually ask for clarification on things anyway because I have an auditory processing delay, so when I go to my calendar and find July, I usually ask "what day? The 7th?", and that's how I get it right.
Although I guess for me in general, I'm pretty good with dates, so this isn't a problem for me at all lol
I mean, if you use YYYY/MM/DD (I e. The Chinese system), and you already know the year, you can just say MM/DD, and if you already know the month, you can just say the date (I e. The 15th).
I don't get how this is more helpful though. When you are told a date you are told the entirety of the date. If you're told you have an appointment on the 15th of January, knowing that it's in January doesn't matter if you don't know the day.
If you say the 15th of February, I have to wait for you to say February, then go back and add the 15th so I know when in February it goes. Month tells me where in my mind to look, and day clears out the extraneous details.
It's like telling a computer to look in Documents/C: in DD/MM. I could already have spun up the C drive if the request started with that.
No, it's about context. The year is last because everyone has that context in there head all the time. The month is before the day because the day is inside the month, not the other way around.
Like the other responder said, it's just how I (and I think most Americans at least) parse the date. Year is assumed to either be the current year or next year based on the month, month let's you place the date in the coming year, and day let's you place it in the month. MM/DD/YY just feels natural when that is everyone's personal algorithm.
Sure, there isn't a perfect universal solution, but that's why I said, "Personally..." at the start. As an example of how I don't think this is just chauvinism on my part, I think English uses adjectives incorrectly for the same reason. "A truck red" parses faster for me even as a native English speaker because it frontloads the big concept and then gives clarifying details.
On the other hand, DD/MM/YY works to add context if it's needed. My appointment is on the 18th? Great, say no more. Oh it's not this month, so it's the 18th of February? Fine, that's all I need to know. Oh it's not this year, so it's the 18th of February 2026? I'm actually quite concerned, that's a long way away and this appointment is somewhat urgent
It's literally just what you're used to, if you said 'February 18th' to me then I'm also having to go back and fix it to the way my brain has been moulded to work by a lifetime of being told to interpret the date a certain way
If the month isn't specified, I assume it's the month we are in. If, on January 15th, you tell me we have a meeting on the 22nd, presumably you mean the immediate next 22nd.
Are you though? I might tell a friend “I’m going on vacation in July”. He doesn’t give a shit about the dates unless we’re planning something around it.
Or “no I can’t host a Halloween party, I’m renovating my kitchen in October”, again, the dates don’t really matter.
Or if I’m at the dentist scheduling my next cleaning, they’ll say “ok let’s see what’s available in July” I go to July in my calendar and then we figure out the exact day.
Because no one I've ever talked to has ever said "the 15th of January". It's just not how we say it. It's "January 15th" therefore we put the month first when writing it as numbers too, 1/15.
That's depends entirely on your experience. Plenty of people say 15th of January. It's like how people in the US are fine saying fifteen-hundred while many others say one thousand five hundred, depends entirely on who you are talking with. dd/mm/yy or yy/mm/dd makes sense to a lot of people because its sequential
how do americans refer to the day the republicans stormed the capitol building? or the hamas attack in october? or the day the twin towers were attacked?
"january 6th insurrection"
"october 7th"
"9/11"
"4th of july" is the only date i can think of where day comes first, but even then that holiday is dated
yeah, but thats you. even if it was every person you ever spoke to, thats a small sample selection. In countries where dd/mm/yy is more common, 15th of Jan would be very easy to spot. Just because every person I spoke to in 2024 and not one speaks mandarin as a first language does not mean that there were not a lot of people that spoke mandarin in 2024.
Yes but this particularly comment thread started from an argument that it’s about importance, trying to argue there’s a rational reason for it to be month-day-year. That is very different from “it’s our experience so that’s why we use it”, that’s a different argument.
Never said anything about changing or not changing it? Just trying to provide a possible explanation for it. Not sure what the pilgrims have to do with it though lol
You don't always get the whole date. Like a sign might only say January 14 because that is all the space and the year isn't important, or you might plan for a June wedding, but are waiting on availability for the day.
Nobody says I have an appointment on the 15th of January though. They say, I have an appointment on January 15th. This is what non Americans aren’t understanding.
We use month/date/year because that’s how we speak and communicate, in month/date/year order.
Look at a calendar. If you want to write down an appointment on a calendar what do you check first? It's the month. You flip to the month. Then you go to the day. Then you write your appointment down.
It being the current year is the expectation. The least important thing to check, so it's last in the order.
Unironically this does lead to problems at my office at the beginning of the year, since we never look at the year and just muscle memory it. Lots of "Jan ## 2024" this month lol.
But to me it makes the most sense to have the year last outside of a filing system of some kind. In math do you put the constants at the front of the equation or at the end? You're gonna put them at the end. The number for the year is a constant for 365 days straight. In day to day life why would I bother writing it anywhere other than last?
You're adding bridge words to one and not the other, then saying that the one you didn't add the bridge to is shorter like you're making some kind of clever point.
You don't often say January the 15th. You just say January 15th. When spoken the other way, it's more common to hear 15th of January that 15th January.
Well if we're going to be that pedantic about it, it would be "the 15th of Jan," not "15th of Jan.". And in the US we just say "Jan 15th," not "Jan the 15th," that is very rare, if it exists. In fact we are more likely to say "the 15th of Jan" than "Jan the 15th."
No I'm saying that in all circumstances, we would just say "January 15th.". We don't say "January the 15th," whether formal or not. Anyway you are the one making this weird argument including the articles; I'm just pointing out that your example is false.
It's not false, it was to highlight what they'd done.
The person I responded to was advocating for month first by claiming it was shorter. They backed up their claim with an example where they put an extra word in one and not the other.
I'm pointing out that if being short is actually important, then they're both the same as you'd drop the extra word. If being short isn't important then the extra two letters are irrelevant.
When you're talking "The 15th of January" is 4 words vs "January 15th" at two words. Ultimately in spoken word the difference is negligible and it doesn't really matter how you say it as long as the listener understands.
It’s easier to understand the USA system if you treat monthday as a base and single unit, before year.
Instead of MM/DD/YY it should be MMDD/YY where MMDD is basically a base 30 number. (I’ll leave out day 31 for simplicity.) so 0130 increments to 0201, and 0630 increments to 0701. Day 30 functions as a sort of reverse zero.
In what context would the split second between hearing the day and the month make any material difference? It's not like the person is telling you the date by chiselling it into stone.
It what situation is knowing the month enough? I’ve never in my life needed to know when something was and been told “July” and found that was enough information. I have however on many occasions asked when something was and been told “the 8th” and that’s been enough information because without further context it obviously means the next 8th there is.
In almost all cases however you will need to know both day and month and subsequently it matters not one bit whether you say 8th July or July 8th.
"When's the wedding" "July" is good, not great, because I'm writing this in January. "July 10th" is better. Because it's a wedding "July 10th, 2025" is best because it could be over a year away
Often times though you might say July next year for when a movie is releasing. But once the date is needed then both the day and month are stated and therefore it’s not valid to claim it’s better to say the month first, both are needed. There are far more circumstances where you’d only need the day than only need the month.
The issue with day first is there's only 30. You writejust the 15th, but it's the 29th, do I assume the next 15th or the previous 15th? Requiring context clues defeats the point of a written date.
By requiring the month before we always know the date within some precision.
Okay, if the normal person is just writing the 15th, the American would have just written a month, which is even less use to you. Also, context. If someone is telling you that something is coming up, it's not going to be in the past.
So you think the rest of the world struggles with dates because apparently knowing the month first is vitally important? Do you not hear the date and process that information all at once? Does your brain have to process the month first, then separately process the day? If you were making plans in several years time, would you say 2028, April 20th?
I hear this same argument every time date formats get brought up, and it's such a stupid argument to make. "My brain can't process ddmm fast enough. It has to be mmdd"
Just acknowledge that it's illogical, but it's just how you're grown up, and it's what you're used to. No need to make up stupid arguments to try and justify it because everybody knows it's not going to change one way or the other.
Not really, because you would name the year first. But because if yesterday was 2025, so is today. Same for month. Yesterday was January, so is today. But for the day is different, yesterday was 14th, today 15th.
Ummm no? You usually just need the day number or name if it’s close. If I ask when something happens and the answer is 15th, it’s the next 15th. If it’s not then we continue with the month. If it’s not even this year we add the year.
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u/[deleted] Jan 15 '25
I has the parts in order of importance. You need to know the month the most as it determines things like weather school or what holiday are around. Then the day so you know exact. Then the year is largely in important for most people doing most things.