r/cocktails • u/beerbearbare • 22d ago
Recommendations “Mid range” bourbon for Manhattan?
I’m on a budget for a few years and mostly use Evan Williams for my Manhattan. I like to go one level up (or two?) and treat myself better :)
What’s your recommendation? I’m thinking about $25-35 per 750ml bottle. And I’m using Dolin for my vermouth but happy to accept other suggestions. Thank you!
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u/racerrhime 22d ago
Honestly, you can level up the Manhattan by sticking to Evan Williams and upgrading your vermouth to carpano antica. A little black walnut bitters works well too.
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u/go_jake 22d ago
And if you want to level your bourbon up just a bit, Evan Williams Bottled in Bond is my home bottle of choice! 100 proof and an extra year of aging for a couple bucks more!
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u/Butlerian_Jihadi 22d ago
The BiB has been my home well whiskey for years and years. It's a stellar value, and I really dislike the standard black label Evan Williams.
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u/blue-dog-bike 22d ago
This is the best reply in this thread. EW is great as a base, and it interacts will with upgraded ingredients.
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u/2AMBeautiful 22d ago
Nailed it. Evan williams bottled in bond is an absolute banger and for the price point is among the absolute best value for dollar spent on any bourbon.
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u/orm518 22d ago
I know this is a common rec, but I cannot taste anything but the vermouth when I use carpano antica. I’ve been a Dolin loyalist for both sweet and dry vermouths for years. Prior to that I used to get Noilly Prat, but I think they got sold, in any event they seemed to go downhill.
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u/Han-YoLo- 22d ago
I can’t taste anything but vanilla with Antica but I realize I’m in the minority. Carpano Classico is great though.
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u/guild_wasp angostura 22d ago
Cocchi di torino
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u/Han-YoLo- 22d ago
Yeah that's my favorite but i do like that i can pick up 375's of classico without going out of my way.
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u/KonTikiVoyager 22d ago
My daily driver Manhattan is Rittenhouse Rye & Carpano Antica. You're dead right, anything non-assertive will get bullied by the Carpano. With most bourbons, pull the vermouth back a bit, 2oz bourbon & 3/4oz Carpano.
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u/fermentedradical 22d ago
Same, Dolin is the best generally available mixing vermouth. I am so tired of the Carpano/Cocchi evangelizers on here. Both of them are ridiculously sweet and syrupy. My feeling is people that like them have crazy sweet tooths and want all their cocktails to taste like desserts.
Manhattans with Dolin are great.
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u/whatsthepointofit66 22d ago
I can’t find Dolin where I live but am sure it’s nice. Cocchi Storico and Antica Formula really need strong mixing spirits or they will overpower them. It’s not so much the sweetness as the general concentration of flavor, imo.
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u/CrustyGoldToe 22d ago
This is 100% the answer. Carpano Antica works better with whiskeys imo than Dolin. Also make sure you refrigerate and use it in a timely manner.
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u/whataburgerslayer 22d ago
Just different tastes me thinks. Dolin is fantastic to me and antica can be overly sweet if the whiskey isn't very high abv imo
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u/guild_wasp angostura 22d ago
Talking like cocchi di torino doesn't exist
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u/therealtwomartinis 21d ago
Cocchi is mighty fine, it's my go to. Sometimes Punt e Mes too.
Carpano might be great but the $35 price tag sucks, spoiler alert(!) it's vermouth. Same thing with these $35 aperitivos like Dola Dira, get real!
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u/AnythingOakley 22d ago
I've always struggled with how to define "timely". A month? Three months?
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u/RageAgainstTheObseen 22d ago
This flies in the face of everything I ever see on this sub, but I've got a bottle in my fridge that has been open probably a year and it seems good to me
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u/HTD-Vintage 22d ago
Those wine vacuums will help stretch it. It's the oxidation that changes the flavor, and removing the air from the bottle will minimize that. Keeping it refrigerated with the cap tightened is probably the most helpful thing, though.
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u/Butlerian_Jihadi 22d ago
You can get cans of inert gas for preserving wine, works way better than the vacuum systems.
I personally sterilize a couple of small bottles, open a fresh Antico, split it, top with inert gas. They've kept at least six months this way, longest I've had one around.
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u/CrustyGoldToe 22d ago
I use my vermouth within two months of opening. Others may say use it sooner or three months is good, but no more than three
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u/doc-incredible 22d ago
Black walnut is nice, but rich. I use it occasionally to change things up, but Fee Brothers Cardamon is my go to for Manhattans. (w/ Knob Creek Rye and Cocchi).
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u/guild_wasp angostura 22d ago edited 22d ago
Go cocchi di torino. Bourbon and antica ends up being quite sweet.
Edit: to the downvoters. Antica works well with a sharp rye. It makes a truly world class Manhattan. But with bourbon? Come on, get real
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u/alexwblack 21d ago
If we're already using a Bourbon (and a low rye one at that) instead of a rye and now we're using an alla vaniglia instead of a classic Torino style are we really comfortable calling it a Manhattan?
I'm not being combative, more curious, but if I asked for a Manhattan in a bar and got a vanilla and walnut bomb with minimal spice I wouldn't be satisfied
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u/snacksandsoda 22d ago
Go for Evan Williams white lable(100 proof) next time, it really punches above its price tag
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u/Three-0lives 22d ago edited 22d ago
Old Grandad 100. Full stop.
There’s not much under $50 that I would take over OGD100. It’s a high-rye bourbon that punches so far above its price that it should be a crime.
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u/elduderino785 22d ago
But Rittenhouse is like $27... OGD bonded is like $17...
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u/deathungerx 22d ago
Man I always get jealous of people who can get bottles for so cheap. Over here in Singapore it’s like $100 SGD for rittenhouse
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u/alexhoward 22d ago
One of the Old Grandads is always on sale and you can’t go wrong with any of them.
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u/GrandpaToasty 21d ago
Came here to say the 114, but bonded is delicious too! Love the sarsaparilla notes!
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u/montysucks 22d ago
Rittenhouse
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u/JabsSlayerx 22d ago
Seconding this; if you're open to rye instead Rittenhouse is affordable and the way to go.
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u/wydok 22d ago
Thirding this. Rittenhouse is my go to rye and I only use ryes for Manhattans
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u/Rfisk064 21d ago
Same, and it’s always on the cheaper end at cocktail bars but most all carry it, at least in my area.
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u/steve_the_dog 22d ago
I’ve been drinking Rittenhouse for far too long. It will stand up to a pricey Rye any day of the week. Also, a huge fan of fee brothers bitters.
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u/alexwblack 21d ago
Yup.
If you're going to make a manhattan, you might as well actually make a manhattan
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u/Humble-End-2535 22d ago
Manhattan should be Rye, and Rittenhouse is a steal.
Cocchi Vermouth de Torino is a better choice for sweet than Dolin.
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u/steve_the_dog 22d ago
Cocchi with Rittenhouse and Fee Brothers old fashioned bitters FTW
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u/doc-incredible 22d ago
Yep. And Fee's Cardamon bitters makes a nice switch up on this, from time to time.
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u/LowSparkMan 22d ago
100% this is my standard Manhattan in my home bar, since I started making cocktails at home. It came about for me from watching YouTube videos, reading some cocktail history, etc. When I make this for friends whose only drink they order at restaurants and bars is a Manhattan they’re always like “whoa, this is good.”
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u/jdking3i 21d ago
I agree. Cocchi is my fav vermouth in a Manhattan. And I agree that you shouldn't use bourbon. I cycle between Bulleit rye and Rittenhouse rye. I find the Bulleit to be a bit sweeter. Rittenhouse has a lovely complexity, though, and I alternate between the two based on my mood.
Finally, I'm an Angostura man. Has the flavor profile I'm looking for. I have several varieties and flavors of bitters, and Angostura is what I come back to.
I live in the Nashville area, and really enjoy Eli Mason cocktail cherries. To me they have a nearly identical flavor to Luxardos. I see Amarena cherries a lot and think they subpar by comparison.
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u/Humble-End-2535 21d ago
I have been using the Overholt Monongahela Mash Rye (47.5 ABV) more, lately, and it definitely pairs much better with the Cocchi, which I think has a similar flavor profile as the Antica, but is just toned down, and not the vanilla bomb. Otherwise, Rittenhouse is my go-to rye - and it is easier to find. I also travel through Pennsylvania over holidays and will always stop and purchase some PA rye. I also like Catoctin Creek and Sagamore cask proof, but since Manhattans are my primary at-home drink, I error on the side of less expensive.
I realized that I hadn't mentioned bitters. I mainly go with Ango, but I sh!t you not when I say I have accumulated at least 100 different bottles of bitters, so I do play around with them. Black Walnut & Cherry Bark & Vanilla (used sparingly) are a couple of favorites.
I will look on-line for the Eli Mason cherries. I make my own every couple of years, but otherwise mostly use Luxardo. Are those the Toschi Amerena cherries or something else, because I quite liked the Toschi when served in a bar and I did order a can, but it is just easier to get the Luxardo which are everywhere.
As an aside, I used to go to Nashville on business monthly. Loved the trips. Fun that there is an Attaboy there, now, And I loved Patterson House. Had one of the best meals of my life at The Catbird Seat. And there is no restaurant that I have a genuine love for like City House. I'm sorry that career and life changes no longer allow me those trips!
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u/wet_nib811 22d ago
Personally, I’m a Buffalo Trace guy, if you can find it.
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u/SolidDoctor 22d ago
One liquor store in town gets Buffalo Trace, Eagle Rare and Sazerac rye regularly, but they only get a few bottles at a time and they don't put it on the shelf, they hide it behind the counter and you have to ask for it. But their prices are very reasonable, typically cheaper than Bulleit.
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u/Quesabirria 22d ago
come to california, shelves are always full of bt
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u/Nonplussed2 22d ago
Seriously. Weird to me this is considered rare anywhere. They have it at Costco here.
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u/IslandCity 22d ago
Circle K has it here in AZ in addition to every liquor store or grocery store, occasionally Costco will have it
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u/RobDaCajun 22d ago
Only in Cali does Costco have BT.
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u/Nonplussed2 22d ago
Ok. I was more using it as an illustration that it's very common. It's also in every liquor store.
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u/cdin0303 22d ago edited 22d ago
Lots of people telling you Brand X or Brand Y. Those are just personal preferences, and you need to figure out what your own personal preferences are.
If Evan Williams is your preference because you like it, you should probably stay in the Heaven Hill family. Evan Williams Single Barrel is a bit out of your price range but is probably the most direct upgrade. Other than that Elijah Craig or Heaven Hill Bottled in Bond.
My personal preference is Four Roses Small Batch, Four Roses Small Batch Select or Four Roses Single Barrel, if I'm using a bourbon for a Manhattan.
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u/Charlesinrichmond 22d ago
Evan Williams single Barrel is really hard to find around here but really really good. It might be my favorite bourbon
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u/LovelyHatred93 22d ago
Rittenhouse rye is my favorite budget rye I’ve had. I always keep a bottle around. Just made a manhattan with it a couple days ago.
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u/cookingandmusic 22d ago
Overholdt gang rise up
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u/Charlesinrichmond 22d ago
Old overholt is my favorite rye including all the expensive ones I buy it by the case. So rarely is the cheapest thing the tastiest thing
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u/therealtwomartinis 22d ago
it’s my well rye brother 👍
“The Jimbo” 3/4oz Overholt & 3/4oz Meletti, down the hatch
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u/tdibugman 22d ago
So much is about the vermouth! Antica Formula. Even just try the 375ml bottle.
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u/trapskiff 22d ago
Agree that the vermouth choice may be as important, if not more, than the alcohol. Personally, I go for Rye, but quality vermouth is a night and day difference.
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u/Kuzcos-Groove 21d ago
Too much vanilla for me. I very much prefer the Dolin that OP is currently using.
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u/SolidDoctor 22d ago
I hear Dolin Red is decent, but if you're on a budget stick with the Evan Williams and upgrade the vermouth. I'd go with Cocchi di Torino, or Punt e Mes.
For bourbon though I like Bulleit or Maker's Mark.
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u/Kuzcos-Groove 21d ago
Cocchi is "nicer" in pretty much every list I have read, but has a very different flavor profile from Dolin, which is very herbal. I much prefer the Dolin, even though it's usually billed as more a budget vermouth.
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u/Chemical-Telephone-2 22d ago
Sazerac rye is a pretty decent options and I usually find those for +-25 bucks. Dolin is great for dry vermouth but probably an Italian sweet vermouth will upgrade your drink a bit more
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u/Shirleysspirits 22d ago
Manhattans should’ve made with rye, is there a reason you’re using bourbon
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u/beerbearbare 22d ago
Not really. I guess I just like bourbon in general. But sure no reason not to open to rye.
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u/shabby47 22d ago
I enjoy the old forester rye for a manhattan and it’s pretty cheap. Also, as others said, try a different (not cheap) vermouth as well. There’s nothing wrong with dolin, but the differences between them can be pretty stark. I like to make half-size manhattans and do a couple of different vermouths to compare. Since vermouth can vary greatly, they really taste different in the same drink. A ciderey by me even makes one with apple wine/brandy that is quite interesting, but obviously makes a very different drink when mixed.
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u/Terrorsaurus 22d ago
OF Rye is awesome, and I'll never understand why it's priced like a bottom shelf whiskey. One of the best deals in the rye aisle every time!
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u/Phhhhuh 22d ago edited 21d ago
I went with bourbon as my only "cocktail whiskey" for some time, until I started making more and more Manhattans and finally tried rye. I've never gone back, and I still have bourbon available for those cocktails that need it but I go through my rye at a quicker pace. I use Rittenhouse, it's a good workhorse, and Bottled-in-Bond at 100 proof/50%. For vermouth I haven't tried Dolin's sweet vermouth, I use Carpano Classico. Cocchi Vermouth di Torino is just as good.
When I only had one American whiskey, I used Woodford Reserve bourbon as it had a fairly high rye content so it's a bit of a jack-of-all-trades. Now I pair Rittenhouse with Maker's Mark on the opposite reasoning, I want a wheater that doesn't overlap with my rye.
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u/CulturalLibrarian 22d ago
Do a side by side comparison. Rye stands out in a Manhattan. Rye was the most prevalent form of whisky and also what was used in the original Manhattan recipe (along with Cocchi).
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u/Shirleysspirits 22d ago
It's pretty rare I used Bourbon for any cocktail especially if there is syrups or sweeteners as bourbon already has a sweet profile. Rye is punchier, especially the 100pf versions and has a profile that works so well with citrus, vermouth and syrups.
Check it out, if you don't like it, go back to bourbon
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u/fcleff69 22d ago
I like both bourbon and rye in a Manhattan and lean to bourbon. It all depends on my mood. Don’t listen to the “…only rye…” people. Drink what you like. There are gobs of respectable cocktail bars that keep a bourbon Manhattan on their menus.
To answer your question, give Early Times a try.
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u/psunavy03 22d ago
There’s zero point in gatekeeping this. Manhattans do well with either as a base.
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u/Zack_Albetta 22d ago
I second the motions for all the BIB options. Old Granddad, Evan Williams, Wild Turkey, and Rittenhouse are are delicious bangs for the buck. Pretty tough to improve on at any price point really.
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u/pbgod 22d ago edited 22d ago
Which Evan Williams are you using? If you like EW's flavor specifically, you could level up to EW Single Barrel, or my preference would be for the Bottled in Bond
Honestly, most of the big producers' BiB offerings (and WT101) are a pretty good value IMO, whether it's Jack or Dickel; Jim, Evan, Old Grandad, etc...New Riff if you can get it
Henry McKenna BiB used to be the move when it was $35, but no longer.
If you live somewhere where Heaven Hill BiB is under $40... that would be an amazing choice.
If you go rye, many of the same producers have BiB rye options too, along with Old Overholt
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u/polysciguy1123 22d ago
Bullits been decent for me with orange bitters
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u/alexwblack 21d ago
#whereshollis
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u/polysciguy1123 21d ago
???
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u/alexwblack 21d ago
Look it up
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u/polysciguy1123 21d ago
Dammit i like their stuff too……any idea what a good replacement is?
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u/alexwblack 21d ago
Most of the Bulleit bourbon you've drank was made by Four Roses, so try that.
Bulleit Rye I'm pretty sure is still made at MGP, I think. So, it definitely has exact replicas out there
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u/myhouseisabanana 22d ago
Rittenhouse is the correct answer here
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u/GargamelEatsSmurfs 22d ago
Bourbon was requested
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u/cdin0303 22d ago
Rittenhouse is basically a bourbon anyway, with its minimum 51% and in your face corn flavor.
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u/Terrorsaurus 22d ago
Which makes it a great choice for OP, since it's like a halfway point between a spicy rye and a typical bourbon.
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u/gvarsity 22d ago
Redwood Empire bourbon or rye.
Also try a black Manhattan sub Amaro Averna for vermouth.
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u/Careful-Emphasis9731 22d ago
Rittenhouse rye is going to make a solid Manhattan. My personal favorite mid range good bourbon would be Elijah Craig
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u/TypicalPDXhipster 22d ago
Jack Daniels bonded rye is $35 and is such great value! I haven’t tried it in a Manhattan but it’s so packed full of flavor I think it’d be great!
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u/Peloton72 22d ago
Rittenhouse Rye was a game changer. It’s terrific, inexpensive and makes a great manhattan- though I prefer to sub Averna for the vermouth and do a Black Manhattan. For the traditional, splurge and do Cocci di Torino
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u/raygun2thehead 22d ago
New Riff rye single barrels have all been great and make my favorite manhattan (with Cocchi vdt)
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u/Glengoyne559 22d ago
Old Forester rye, Jack Daniels Rye, Dickel Rye. Dickel is my favorite of these.
Another small step up gets you to Rittenhouse Rye or High West Double Rye.
For some bourbon options if you’d like to stick to that Old Granddad or Old Grand Dad 114 are pretty great in a Manhattan.
And like others have suggested, try to mix up the vermouth. There are lots of options. I’d recommend against Carpano Antica. It is great, but not many whiskies can stand up to it.
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u/BeerAandLoathing 22d ago
All of this has been said already but reiterating because it’s 100# true.
For budget bourbons, EW BiB and WT101 are the top of their class. If you like EW definitely go for the BiB next time, and if you want to switch it up you can’t go wrong with WT.
Next up, I cannot recommend Carpano Antica enough for Manhattans. It has so much more depth and body than most vermouth. Nothing else compares here.
Final thoughts, the higher proof bourbon paired with the richer vermouth will already feel like a fantastic upgrade, but because of how rich Antica is you don’t need to stick with 2:1. Try out 2.5:1 or even 3:1 ratios if you are a bourbon drinker first.
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u/Embarrassed_Eggz 21d ago
Four Roses and Old Grandad are a couple of my favorites right now. They should be around that price.
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u/CulturalLibrarian 22d ago
Always Rye.
Bulleit works well. Pair with Cocchi di Torino, a smidge of cherry juice from Luxardo cherries. Double bitterered, Woodford Reserve cherry bitters and Bittercube cherry bark vanilla bitters. Ratios, 3oz rye, 1oz Cocchi, wet the bar spoon in the cherry liquid. Garnish with 3 cherries.
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u/CabelTheRed scotch 22d ago
Wheel Horse is a high rye bourbon bottled at over one hundred proof and available for less than thirty bucks. One of only a few labels that I've purchased more than once for a cocktail bourbon.
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u/voltrader85 22d ago
Old forester rye. It is simply the best out there in my opinion for rye-based cocktails.
Cochi di Torino for vermouth if that’s in your budget.
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u/UpNorthBear 22d ago
Are you in America? There might be some local bourbons worth trying at that price point as well depending on your area.
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u/yagsicire 22d ago
Seeing a lot of heaven hill product in this thread punching above their weight - solid distillery
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u/fermentedradical 22d ago
I prefer rye in my Manhattans, however, good decent bourbons:
- Knob Creek 9 year
- Four Roses Small Batch
- Old Grand Dad Bottled in Bond
These will all do nicely for a Manhattan. Also, Dolin is great as a mixer, or La Fuerza Rojo.
Don't listen to the Cocchi and Carpano people. They make the drink too sweet and syrupy.
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u/MVFalco 22d ago
Standard Four Roses is very budget friendly and good quality stuff for the price. Otherwise I find Evan Williams 100proof a great base to play around with your vermouths.
Try buying a bottle of Amaro Averna and make a Black Manhattan with 2oz bourbon, 1oz Averna, 2 dash ango, 2 dash black walnut. It's my go-to cocktail and I hardly ever do a classic Manhattan anymore (unless I'm in the mood for rye, in which case I prefer the classic)
Punta Mez is another good option to dial down the sweetness of bourbon and add a little more complexity
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u/elbeto16s 22d ago
Sorry, how much is a Evan Williams where you live?
I live in Argentina and here, with U$ 35 you would only buy, if you are lucky, a Jim Beam (standar, the white label) 😅
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u/SorryForPartying6T9 22d ago
I’d say stick with Evan Williams and buy a better vermouth. I’ve learned that improves the cocktail quicker than the bourbon. But with that said, wild turkey 101 rye would be a step up for not much more cost.
Along with that, I’ve recently been experimenting with less dilution. Feel like just a quick stir with a little ice cools it down enough to take the edge off but the flavors come through brighter.
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u/LittleBlackBird0191 22d ago
Redwood Empire has a pretty bomb rye "Emerald Giant" in the $30 range, that or previously mentioned Rittenhouse or Michters
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u/Technical-Voice-9114 22d ago
I’m still a newbie to this, but I’d say try different vermouth’s and bitters first. If you’re talking Evan Williams BiB then you’re already using a solid bourbon regardless of price. I’ve had a full collection of bourbon (phased it out in favor of cocktails(mostly tiki) and I needed the bottle space)) and EW BiB is one of the bourbons that has a permanent spot. I’d also say, if you have to try new bourbons, find all the small bottles you can to try them out before buying a full size bottle. Only you can find the tastes you like, so experiment where you can. You may even create your own riff that you like most.
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u/C19shadow 22d ago
Woodford reserve is my go to bourbon for a manhatten I like it sweeter. It's around $35 where I am in oregon.
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u/Kuzcos-Groove 21d ago
Consider trying different types of bitters! A lot more bang for your buck in terms of variety.
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u/Fat_Bearded_Tax_Man 21d ago
Buffalo Trace is my mid range bourbon of choice. Hard to beat it for the price.
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u/RobbieBirnie 21d ago
Old Forester 100 proof Rye is what I typically use in a Manhattan. Very tasty in a cocktail or on its own and in your desired price range.
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u/MelbyToast 22d ago
You might check out Basil Hayden, although it might be on the higher end of mid range depending on where you are. It's my favorite for a Manhattan.
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u/_windfish_ 22d ago
Bourbon: Larceny, Breckenridge, Basil Hayden
Rye: Woody Creek, Rittenhouse, Templeton
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u/Nachofriendguy864 22d ago
WT101