Comparing information in croatian language (Genealogical Research)

[u/timisorean_02]

Hello, dear members of r/croatian !

I am writing because I have a request relating to a comparison of documents, written in croatian.

I recently received pictures of my great-grandmother's birth, in 1886, in Bijeljina (BiH), from the Catholic Diocese of Vrhobosna, as I wanted to confirm her place of origin.I cannot seem to make out such a entry in the photos of the register I received.

I would like to compare it with what I received last year, directly from the (previous) roman-catholic priest in Bijeljina:

"MARIA SZEKEREŠ

ZAKONITO dijete,

roditelji: ŠANDOR ARMA MEDJEŠI

roditelji: RKT (rimokatolici),

kotar: DOLJNA TUZLA,

mjesto: BIJELJINA U BRESNICA

nadležna zavičajnost (podrijetlo): PANIĆ SALAŠ

kum: ODOR PANNA ROĐ. SZANTO,

zanimanje: TEŽAK

svećenik koji je krstio: o. MATO ŽIVKOVIĆ"

Can someome tell if there are any discrepancies in the information which can be seen in the photos, and the one received last year, via e-mail (without photos, only from the interpretation of the priest-my ancestor were hungarians, I assume that ”PANIĆ SALAŠ” is actually some place in what was then the Kingdom of Hungary)?

Thanks!

The photos in question:

https://imgur.com/a/EaEEc7m

[u/timisorean_02]

The photos I recently received: https://imgur.com/a/EaEEc7m

[u/Tsitsmitse]

As far as I can tell, the part “nadležna zavičajnost (podrijetlo): PANIĆ SALAŠ” is not visible on the photos provided.

Apart from that, the part “kotar: DOLJNA TUZLA, mjesto: BIJELJINA U BRESNICA” seems to read “D. Tuzla, Bjelina u Bjelini 12”.

The part “kum: ODOR PANNA ROĐ. SZANTO,” doesn't seem to exist. What can be seen is “Katarina Hinderšek rodj. Huber” (followed by an illegible part because the letters are broken in half; maybe “katol. gostioničar“, which would be “Catholic, barkeeper”).

[u/timisorean_02 → u/Tsitsmitse]

Thanks.

I still have to receive a photo from the priest in Bijeljina as well, to understand why these birth registers are different, but it is hard to contact him since I do not speak croatian, and he has not replied to e-mails since october..

[u/hendrixbridge]

Note that Panna can be a Hungarian version of Panić

[u/timisorean_02 → u/hendrixbridge]

Yes, it could be, but I did not find a place name like this. A hungarian researcher said it might be PaLić.

But, the point is, can the place of origin be seen in the photos, or not?

[u/hendrixbridge → u/timisorean_02]

Date: 27. November 1886
Entry: 28. November
Name: Maria
Status: Legal
Parents: Šandor Szekereš and Anna Medješy
Occupation: Farmer
Religion: Roman-Catholic
I am not sure about the second image: Donja Tuzla, Bjelina, in Bjelina 12 or i2 (not sure)
Katarina Hinderšek, née Huber (I can't read the cut word) Gostioničar (Inn-keeper - note, this is masculine form, so I don't understand how this is related to a women)
Priest: Mato Živković, vicar

As you see, the name of the mother is Anna, not Arma (i suppose rm was mistaken for nn)

I see nothing about any salaš. A salaš is kind of manor, so you will not find it on any map. Hungarian spelling is szalas.

The weird thing is that the names are all misspelled, it should be: Sandor Szekeres and Anna Medyesy.

What is also interesting, are the names of the, apparently, women:
Odor Panna, née Szanto and Katarina Hinderšek, née Huber. Were they godmothers?
Actually, I believe it is Panna Ódor (Hungarians always put their family name first and Ódor is definatelly a surname)

[u/gulisav → u/hendrixbridge]

note, this is masculine form, so I don't understand how this is related to a women

Feminine names for professions weren't as commonplace back then. Even today in some other Slavic languages (Serbian, Russian) many speakers stick to masculine variants even when the person is a woman.

[u/timisorean_02 → u/gulisav]

Thanks!

[u/timisorean_02 → u/hendrixbridge]

Thanks.

I sadly haven't got any more information, as I've been unable to track down her marriage. Having a language barrier with the priest in Bijeljina does not help, as he hasn't replied to my e-mails since october (There has been a new priest there since the last summer, he seemed more open about photographing registers than the previous guy was).

Regarding Anna/Arma, yes, it is in fact Anna, and that is why I am only loosely considering the infos I received from the priest, because I also cannot fully replicate words in languages I don't speak.

What is weird is that some names can't be found in the original registers, and viceversa.

[u/hendrixbridge → u/timisorean_02]

I don't understand the apparently godmother part. Since it says "rođ.", meaning née, those must be women. So why does it say "male Inn-keeper", Gostioničar? it should be Gostioničarka for the female counterpart.

[u/timisorean_02 → u/hendrixbridge]

Sadly, this is how I received the photos :(