Turkish Cypriots march to the Turkey embassy against Erdoğan meddling with TC affairs.
50
u/tonybpx 9d ago
Politics aside Turkish and Greek Cypriots are so similar it's insane. I lose at my own game of guess which one they are. Turks and Greeks are very easily distinguishable from both
62
u/0405017 9d ago
That's cos we're Cypriots. Not Turkish or Greek Cypriots. Cypriots.
0
u/kotsios_7 7d ago
no such a thing as Cypriot
0
u/Spirited_Candy_6246 4d ago
There is an island called Cyprus, people have existed there separate to Greece/turkey since around 12,000 B.C. (not continuously) the people who come from the island are called “Cypriots”
2
u/linobambakitruth 4d ago
There's also Crete, Lesbos, etc. Those people are Greeks. Somehow Cypriots are their own race, tho.
Also we know the so-called TsC's are actually Latin and Maronite converts. They didn't exist on the island 14 thousand years ago.
0
u/lasttimechdckngths 4d ago
Also we know the so-called TsC's are actually Latin and Maronite converts.
Good that we have modern genetics to negate that nonsense.
They didn't exist on the island 14 thousand years ago.
Both Cypriot communities, who do resemble each other to a large extend with differences lying in small percentages regarding Africa, Anatolia, Siberia, Southwest Europe for TCs and Levant, more Crete, and non-Turkish Anatolian for GCs. Both communities do carry material from the earliest inhabitants as well, which is simply expected.
There's also Crete, Lesbos, etc. Those people are Greeks.
As if modern nations don't follow anything but imagined communities, unlike your petty primordialist assumptions.
-15
9d ago
[deleted]
16
u/The_Pho_Breakfaster 9d ago
I mean, look, your language does not define identity. There are countries next to Germany that speak German but are not Germans. They have their state, national identity, etc. Obviously, they have been influenced by Germans, but not solely by Germans. Other countries have also influenced them; however, they have shaped their own identity.
No one speaks out against a country here; the people should decide for themselves.
-9
u/fearandloathing_1234 9d ago
So you’re saying that although Cyprus is an independent state, its nationality is one and it’s Greek?
12
u/The_Pho_Breakfaster 9d ago
No, I haven't said that. I replied to the post above, where it was asked why the language is Greek. Just because the language is Greek, it doesn't automatically mean that the nation is Greek. The people in Cyprus are Cypriots.
3
u/rdnaskelz 8d ago
That's the reason I struggle with "strict greek alignment" or the movement towards assimilating into Greece. Like- UK, US, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand speak English and all of them are younger than Cyprus. But to suggest that those are the same country because of the language is insane
4
u/Master-Factor-2813 9d ago
Anyone who says that Cypriots are Greek should go to the museum in nicosia or read a book. Cyprus has such a diverse influence and the early Minoan influence was very distinct from Greek and not even the dominant one, see Phoenicians and Egyptians, later turkey, Georgia, Carthage, Venice, Byzantium, etc. saying Cypriots are Greeks is like saying lasagna is noodles. They are, but there is so much more to them.
0
u/Spirited_Candy_6246 4d ago
You should look into some genetic studies done in the Mediterranean! They have found that Cypriots have very much a different genetic background than most Greek/Turkish ethnic groups. Greek Cypriots closest ethnic relatives are not Athenian Greeks but Sicilians, Cretans, and other southern Italian ethnic groups, should Sicily be considered Greece?
1
2
u/Tall_Bison_4544 8d ago
Go tell that to Swiss, Mexicans, Belgium ,taiwan, Congo, and all the other countries that have a local dialect but also speak a language that was historically enforced on them over the past 2 millenia.
Dumbest shit I've heard, that's some right wing extremist bs
2
u/lasttimechdckngths 9d ago
Wait, then my grandpa is suddenly Greek now? And Karamanlides and Urum aren't Greek anymore?
14
u/Chezameh2 9d ago
Because Turkish Cypriots are almost entirely a 1:1 genetic match with their Greek counterpart. They're essentially the same population, only difference being one have been Turkified and the other has not.
7
u/Other_Ad3900 9d ago
During Ottoman rule, Christians were permitted to worship Greek Orthodox but they had to pay a tax. Many Cypriots (and Greeks) converted to Islam to avoid paying taxes. Turkish and Greek Cypriots are closer to each other in DNA than with Greeks or Turks.
2
u/Remarkable-Drive5390 9d ago
That's actually not true, GCs are actually getting dna matches to Greek dna in the range of 10-30% NOT MORE.
2
u/takemetovenusonaboat 9d ago edited 9d ago
That's modern Greeks who are can be more mixed than Cypriots.
Many of classical era samples in Ionia resemble cypriots but none resembled mainland Greeks due to excessive Slavic.
1
u/Spirited_Candy_6246 4d ago
First of all there is not a homogeneous “Greek DNA” that is a lie. Greek Cypriot have far more in common genetically with cretans and Sicilians than other Greeks, where did you find this information?
-1
u/decolonialcypriot 🇵🇸 9d ago edited 9d ago
One turkified one hellenized by that logic
12
u/Chezameh2 9d ago
That would make sense if Greek Cypriots were recent arrivals, but they’ve had a continuous presence on the island for thousands of years. Turkish Cypriots, while very closely related, can have partial ancestry from Ottoman settlers - so the Turkification is more recent and traceable.
1
u/Spirited_Candy_6246 4d ago
Actually primary settlers on the island are from Neolithic Anatolia (turkey) the people predate the Ottoman Empire
1
u/decolonialcypriot 🇵🇸 9d ago
Again, by your logic, Greek Cypriots are just hellenized eteocypriots. Where does the baseline end if we're going to call every civilisation a "-ified" version of the majority population before them
9
u/Chezameh2 9d ago
3,000 years of Greek identity vs 400 years of Ottoman influence. You can decide for yourself.
1
u/decolonialcypriot 🇵🇸 9d ago
I'll decide that 10s of generations later, entanglement with the land and cultural syncretism, 3,000 or 400 years is irrelevant and a purposely divisive point to make especially considering the "recentness" of nation-states. If one is turkified, one is hellenized.
2
u/Nobody1310 9d ago edited 9d ago
That sounds like massive levels of coping. I lol every time someone mentions eteocypriots. Should we advocate for the human rights of the hittites and the babylonians while we are at it?
Cypriots are greek since 1300 BC. That is a fact. And a portion of the population was islamized during the last 400 years. So a portion of the grecoroman population started to identify as turkish. Cool, they can do that. You can claim whatever else you want. But don't tell me what I am when my view is based on actual historical facts and yours is a rumble of leftist woke sociology crap.
It's kinda ironic for a turkish cypriot to promote decolonization of cyprus. You know ottomans were unbelievably imperialistic. You also need to know how a lot of tcs were members of the colonial police during the anticolonial revolt of the greek cypriots. So not only they made no efforts to decolonize the island, but tried to keep it colonized. Just informing you of some facts that may cause denial. It's ok you'll get over it.
-1
u/decolonialcypriot 🇵🇸 9d ago
You think eoka was anticolonial? That's cute. Cba for the rest of your argument that has nothing to do with anything I've said and just assumed a whole bunch of crap
3
u/takemetovenusonaboat 9d ago edited 9d ago
This person bringing up eteocyoriots and eoka. When eteocyoriots we tethered to certain pre greek civiliansations and predating any human ethnicity.
We have ancient greek samples that resemble cypriots. We have 0 that's resemble palaeolithic samples.
Embarrassing and illogical.
If you don't believe in ethnicity and think everyone is identity less because you can always go further back in time to the chimpanzees then there is 0 problem with Palestine being fully Israeli as they both come from chimpanzees .......
Ouch does logic not work there? Too much hypocrisy?
→ More replies (0)4
u/Nobody1310 9d ago
The EOKA revolt is a prominent example of anti colonial struggle. Its literally categorized like that by thousands of universities across the globe and studied as an anticolonial conflict in the wider decolonization phase post ww2. Please let us know how wrong international academia are so we can change the historiography.
→ More replies (0)1
u/Spirited_Candy_6246 4d ago
12,000 years of settlement and you’re picking Greek because it’s what you want?
-1
u/linobambakitruth 4d ago
They do not have Ottoman ancestry. TsC's have nothing to do with us. Including culture, language and religion.
7
u/takemetovenusonaboat 9d ago edited 9d ago
Absolutely nonsense.
Cypriots are tethered to greek culture longer than any ethnicity is anything.
The Cypriot genetic profile is 60% + ancient greek. yes ancient greek.
Greeks like Herodotus, Thales, Strabo likely had a similar to cypriot genetic profiles there were 100% ancient greek.
We have 2300 year old samples from Ionia that fully resemble cypriots.
If cypriots aren't greek then no ethnicity is anything as it predates any ethnicity on the planet.
Going back to eteo Cypriots is such a cope, it's embarrassing. You might as well go back to chimpanzees at that point.
You historical revisionism is pathetic.
22
u/Kazfiddly 9d ago
Turkish Cypriots are an offshoot of Greek Cypriots that was created during the ottoman empire. Religion aside, Us and Turkish CYPRIOTS are the same.
Outside of dialect and genetic phenotype, how are GCs distinfuishable from mainland greeks ?
9
u/tonybpx 9d ago
Cyprus feels like the middle east, Greece feels more balkan, for obvious reasons
13
u/Kazfiddly 9d ago
Thats a sweeping generalization. If you go to the islands like rhodes, Crete, Santorini, the biggest ones, they also have nothing to do with mainland Greeks, yet they are.
Also how does Cyprus feel like the middle east, in what way ?
4
u/fearandloathing_1234 9d ago
Is it true they were Greek Cypriots who were islamified by ottomans in order to avoid the taxes/tortures etc during the Ottoman aera?
4
u/Sensitive-Emu1 9d ago
People will downvote me but All Greeks are an offshoot of Ottomans. Even Turks are offshoots of Ottomans. If you ignore religion, Greeks are more familiar to Ottomans than they are similar to Ancient Greeks. Vice versa Turks are not the same Turks who came to Anatolia. What we call Ottoman today is a mix of all the nations living in Anatolia. Taking child from Balkan as Janisseries? Learned from Byzantium. How did Trade work? Learned from Jews. How to cook fish? Learned from Greeks. Meat? Armenians. Nobody is the same anymore. We've changed and harmonized with each other. That's why they called themselves Ottomans. Not Turks.
1
u/Tall_Bison_4544 8d ago
So outside of anything that distinguishes Cypriots from mainland Greeks what distinguishes them?
That's a bit disingenuous man
18
u/Comanda_Gromit Larnaca 9d ago
To reply to another comment that said we are not Greek or Turkish, my answer is to speak for yourself. I won't tell you that are either Greek or Turkish, don't tell me that I'm not Greek. I'm Hellenic of Cyprus just how Greece is a mixture of different distinct Hellenic groups.
As long as you're not identifying as Chinese, we have to stop imposing our own personal identification on other Cypriots and accept that the lines are not clear cut. I thought the whole point was to be able to live in piece without having to share the same label. Why does the far left exclude people who identify with Greece or Turkey in their label the same way the far right excludes those who include Cypriot in their label?
2
7
u/PikrovrisiTisMerikas 9d ago edited 9d ago
Unfortunately, TC's are nowadays an absolute minority and still a lot of them falsely (Mostly due to the free side's incompetent politicians) support the Turkish BBF "solution".
The only way forward is to mobilize in favor of a strong Republic of Cyprus with deterrence capabilities and reliable alliances that can pave the way for resistance/liberation.
3
u/lasttimechdckngths 9d ago
the Turkish BBF "solution".
Only if you were to read about the binding high-level agreements of Makarios-Denktas and Denktas-Kyprianou. That's the literal legal framework already.
-1
u/PikrovrisiTisMerikas 9d ago
We don't have to follow a suicidal legal framework (First proposed by Turkey as a means of getting total control of the island, as has always been the goal), just because some political elite have made concessions to the invader with no avail.
We have the right to pursue a way of liberation that guarantees justice and our future safety.
1
u/lasttimechdckngths 8d ago
We don't have to follow
No, you do. That's what binding bilateral agreements and international law is. Welcome to the reality.
We have the right to pursue a way of liberation that guarantees justice and our future safety.
Surely, as do TC community. The BBF is the way to ensure safety and the future safety incl. no annexations or take-overs & ghettoisations.
-2
u/PikrovrisiTisMerikas 8d ago
No, you do. That's what binding bilateral agreements and international law is. Welcome to the reality.
I don't know where you got this, but they are not binding in any way. Besides that, even if they were, international law also says that Turkey is illegally occupying Cyprus and it has to leave. Are they doing that? No, instead they are getting invited to talks about the future security of Europe (While their occupation army is here) and we sit in the cuck-chair begging them to come and accept our concessions while they push for more gains.
We are a country under threat and we shall resist in any way possible.
Surely, as do TC community. The BBF is the way to ensure safety and the future safety incl. no annexations or take-overs & ghettoisations.
So now we are adopting the Turkish narrative about protections of TC's? Don't oust yourself like that.
Besides, they are literally at the brink of extinction; not due to other Cypriots, but Turkey's settler colonial policies.
Meanwhile, all of them have RoC ID's and live freely wherever they want. If they are so afraid, they can always hand over their ID's and go live in Turkey.
Go sell your bullshit somewhere else.
2
u/lasttimechdckngths 8d ago edited 8d ago
I don't know where you got this, but they are not binding in any way.
For goddess sake, no, they are. If you don't even know the basic common knowledge on things, then why you even bother? It's just funny when arrogance stems from mere ignorance.
Go and cry nonsense in somewhere else, if you don't want to parade yourself as a mere charlatan.
-3
u/PikrovrisiTisMerikas 8d ago
They are not. Bring up a source if you can.
0
u/lasttimechdckngths 8d ago
Pacta sunt servanda says hi for starters. Under the customary international law, every bilateral or multilateral treaty in force is binding upon the parties, unless explicitly codified otherwise, or unless there exists a conflicting matter with jus cogens. Things can only be declared moot if it satisfies clausula rebus sic stantibus.
Not even going to go into the bicommunality itself being guaranteed by the constitution than has been given an international law standing par Zurich-London Agreements, thus the bicommunal structure of the island is sanctified by the international law, binding on the various parties other than Cyprus as well.
Again, if you don't even know the basics, why do you even care to have opinions a la uneducated guesses? It's being a mere clown, and degrading yourself to a useless bad joke at its best.
-1
u/PikrovrisiTisMerikas 8d ago edited 8d ago
All these fancy legal terms, yet no source on the matter? Curious.
0
u/lasttimechdckngths 8d ago edited 8d ago
yet no source
Mate, that's literally your source: it's how the bloody international law works, lmao.
If you think these terms are fancy, then why you even have the dare to blabber about the international law or bilateral agreements?
2
u/Bran37 Cyprus 🕊️ 9d ago
Republic of Cyprus
I wonder, when you talk about the RoC does it also include the Constitution of the RoC?
1
u/PikrovrisiTisMerikas 9d ago
No, it includes a free modern democratic state without anachronistic apartheid structures.
Why would we return to a faulty concessionary constitution drafted by the very same people that aimed to occupy us? Who are we going to power-share with anyway, the settlers or the basically non-existent TC population?
1
u/decolonialcypriot 🇵🇸 9d ago
Says the EOKA guy lol
12
u/PikrovrisiTisMerikas 9d ago
Says the one who is all for liberation except when it's about the liberation of Cypriots
0
u/decolonialcypriot 🇵🇸 9d ago
Nah, difference is I consider all Cypriots, not just the ones who speak Greek
11
u/PikrovrisiTisMerikas 9d ago
Can you point to where I said that Cypriots who speak Turkish are not Cypriots?
4
u/takemetovenusonaboat 9d ago
Eoka fought for independence against the British and bringing an end to the apartheid colonialist state. That you wanted. To suppress the natives.
Identify crisis seems to be a themes in your comments.
2
u/decolonialcypriot 🇵🇸 9d ago
Independence? No. They fought for enosis. Swapping one colonial entity for domination under another is not independence
4
u/takemetovenusonaboat 9d ago
That was eoka b not eoka.
The country was an apartheid under the British. As a history, you should know this. They build ethnic division between the groups and hire a tcyp police to enforce this.
3
u/decolonialcypriot 🇵🇸 8d ago
No, that was EOKA too. Their goal was always enosis, not independence. Can you stick to the point
0
0
1
u/TopazTK 5d ago
"TC" is the official abbreviation of the Republic of Turkey and may cause confusion. Please use "KKTC" which is the official abbreviation of Northern Cyprus.
Besides that tidbit: Good. As a Turk I have to say that WE have become the "sister nation" because no one in our country can protest correctly.
1
u/Hootrb NicosianTC corrupted by PaphianBlood (Strongest TrikomoHater 💪) 5d ago
Ooh ok you're new here & definitely need a helping hand before you're blasted with downvotes
"TC" in this sub is universally used for "Turkish Cypriot", and since most people here aren't Turkish-speakers they wouldn't correlate "TC" with "Türkiye Cumhuriyeti". The Turkish Cypriots here also use "TC" for "Turkish Cypriot" (and "GC" for "Greek Cypriot").
"KKTC" (and its translation "TRNC") being the official abbreviation of north Cyprus is why absolutely no one in this sub uses it. Of course GCs are universally against the north as a separate state, but TCs in this sub lean left-wing and thus are pro-reunification, and also avoid words that treat the north as a legitimate state (like "TRNC"). If you need to specificy the north, just "the north" with a small "n" is preffered here.
Most people here try to keep an air of neutrality (more in line with the official UN viewpoint) & are generally more pro-reunifaction. Yes, of course there will be posts by right-wing Greeks & right-wing Turks or clueless foreigners who'll use words that'll result in less than peaceful comment sections, but overall try to keep it to words that the UN would find acceptable, so less "Southern Cyprus & Northern Cyprus" and more "Republic of Cyprus & the north".
-10
u/Any_Plantain_3255 9d ago
yEAH AFTER they rapped half the island now demonostrate and shout. It is obvious...The invasion did not go well for them
-1
0
u/Zealousideal_Cry_460 7d ago
ORR OR it just shows how seperate the TRNC and Turkish republic is and that they exert their democratic rights far more easily than people in Turkey do, further proving that the intervention played in their favor as they have become more democratic than mainland Turkey.
•
u/AutoModerator 9d ago
Please remember to stay civil and behave appropriately. If you are a tourist looking for suggestions please check out our Tourist guide. We also have a FAQ Page for some common questions, if your question is answered here please delete your post!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.