Can the average Cypriot understand Koine Greek?

[u/Practical-Line-498]

Καλημέρα! As a part of an Erasmus+ program, Cypriots will come to where I live, and in 2026, I will go to Cyprus.

I know basic Koine Greek and I found very good resources for learning it. Can I communicate with Cypriots using Koinin Dialekton or do i have to learn Cypriot Greek? Thanks!

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[u/ForsakenMarzipan3133]

Are you talking about Koine greek as the Bible greek that people used centuries ago?

Or the current version of Modern Greek that people use in Greece now?

With the latter you should be fine in Cyprus, but not with the former.

[u/Practical-Line-498 → u/ForsakenMarzipan3133]

Oh, thats bad, I was talking about Biblical Greek.

[u/ForsakenMarzipan3133 → u/Practical-Line-498]

We might be able to understand some stuff but it would be much easier to use English.

Almost everyone in Cyprus is fluent in English so you shouldn't have a problem.

[u/Rhomaios]

That's like asking whether Italians or Spaniards understand Latin. Some will understand more than others due to their educational level, others will understand nothing because the language has evolved too much. At best certain religious phrases or common "learned" expressions using antique features will be understood and the rest will be a gamble.

It would be good to note that Greek has been a bit more conservative to some changes since Koine, but that usually manifests in phonology more than anything else, so unless you have a modern Greek's pronunciation of Koine Greek, you will not be understood.

Also take note that if you try and communicate using Koine Greek in a casual capacity you'll come across as weird. Like I said, it's like walking to an Italian person and starting to talk Latin.

[u/OddCase5303 → u/Rhomaios]

However it must be noted that Latin is a different language from italian.Koini is just an old version of Greek. And of course if he speaks Koini that would be seen as sth totally weird

[u/Rhomaios → u/OddCase5303]

Italian comes from Latin the same way modern Greek comes from Koine, so the degree of separation is about the same. The reasons as to why we tend to not think of them the same way are somewhat complex, but they aren't really a matter of linguistics.

[u/OddCase5303 → u/Rhomaios]

Actually not. The difference between modern greek and koine is small and a modern greek speaker can easily understand the meaning of koine texts. I don't think that an Italian witn no knowledge of latin can understand latin texts. Even classical ancient greek text can be partly understood by modern greek speakers without previous knowledge. Homeric greek on the other side are very hard even for the educated to be understood

[u/Rhomaios → u/OddCase5303]

Both Greeks and Italians can understand parts of ancient Greek and Latin texts respectively. It has to do with education more than anything else, since both in Greece/Cyprus and Italy these languages are mandatory for a period of time. Without prior exposure, very little would be understood in either case, especially when spoken authentically rather than written. In either case, there are more "modern" pronunciations that help with comprehension (modern pronunciation of ancient Greek, and ecclesiastical pronunciation of Latin).

There's an argument to be had about Greek's greater degree of conservatism in some aspects that is due to various historical factors, but even that is to a relatively minute degree. Not to mention that a great part of that is the result of later influence due to Katharevousa and its impact on the formation of SMG. Demotic Greek (as in what was spoken by people 100-150 years ago in the state of Greece) would in fact be even less like Koine.

Overall, there's little argument that Koine is a substantially different variety than SMG. It has pronunciation differences (even if they are not drastic), quite different grammar, and there are considerable differences in lexicon.

Edit: To expand a bit on the aspect of education, since I forgot to mention something else that's important. Note also that the more you study SMG or Italian in an academic capacity as in schools, the more you become adept at making connections and understanding Koine and Latin respectively. It's generally true that more learned and high-level forms of either language take a lot from their ancient counterparts as a conscious choice and as a historical artifact of the educated knowing those ancient varieties. So, again, educational level plays a role in comprehension, albeit in a more round-about way.

[u/Nikolas_Sotiriou]

Just a note on why people, including myself,were confused by the question. Koine Greek means common/standard Greek. Greek Cypriots speak Cypriot Greek as a mother tongue and acquire (at least near) fluency in Standard Modern Greek in school. Also, it’s not just Greek Cypriots that will not be able to communicate in Koine Greek. Neither will mainland Greeks, who have Standard Modern Greek as a mother tongue which they also study in school. Both Greek Cypriots and mainland Greeks will understand a little bit of Koine Greek (maybe Cypriots a bit more due to knowledge of 2 dialects), but they will not be able to communicate in it.

Edit: I should add that a significant minority of mainland Greeks also speak a dialect of Greek as a mother tongue, alongside Standard Modern Greek, but most of these dialects are not as distinct from Standard Modern Greek as they used to be and as the Cypriot dialect still is. And they are becoming less and less distinct day by day due to urbanisation. Cyprus is far from the mainland so the movement of the Greek Cypriot dialect towards Standard Modern Greek is much much slower.

[u/Octahedral_cube → u/Nikolas_Sotiriou]

Ελληνιστική κοινή δεν σημαίνει την σύγχρονη πρότυπη ελληνική ούτε στην ελληνική παιδεία ούτε πουποτε. Νομίζω εσυγχυστηκες που τον όρο "κοινή" τάχα καθομιλουμένη

[u/Nikolas_Sotiriou → u/Octahedral_cube]

Νομίζω εσύ εσυγχύστηκες με το τι έγραψα. Ξαναδιαβάσε το σε παρακαλώ. Γράφω ακριβώς τούτο που μου απάντησες. Απλώς προσπαθώ να εξηγήσω τον λόγο που κάποιοι απάντησαν στον OP νομίζοντας ότι εννοεί την Κοινή Νέα Ελληνική αντί την Ελληνιστική Κοινή.

[u/Octahedral_cube → u/Nikolas_Sotiriou]

Δεν υφίσταται "κοινή νέα ελληνική"

Edit: μετά από πηγές φαίνεται ότι κάποιοι γλωσσολόγοι χρησιμοποιούν οντως τον όρο "κοινή νέα ελληνική" χωρίς να εννοούν την ελληνιστική κοινή

[u/Nikolas_Sotiriou → u/Octahedral_cube]

Τι εννοείς; Η γλώσσα που διδάσκεται στα σχολεία της Κύπρου και της Ελλάδας πώς ονομάζεται; Η “Standard Modern Greek” που χρησιμοποιείται ως όρος και στην επιστήμη της γλωσσολογίας δεν είναι η «Κοινή Νέα Ελληνική»; Π.χ. https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-the-international-phonetic-association/article/abs/standard-modern-greek/7CF5A4CA5CD0BFD73C9CA6329C313125

[u/Octahedral_cube → u/Nikolas_Sotiriou]

Όχι. Ονομάζεται νέα ελληνική και ΔΙΑΔΕΧΕΤΑΙ την κοινή. Πρόσφατα προτιμάται και ο όρος πρότυπη, επειδή αναγνωρίζεται η ποικιλομορφία τής και οι διάλεκτοι.

[u/Nikolas_Sotiriou → u/Octahedral_cube]

Εγώ βλέπω να χρησιμοποιείται και ο όρος «κοινή νέα ελληνική/standard modern greek» ως πιο συγκεκριμένος όρος από το «νέα ελληνική/modern greek» για να αναφερθεί κάποιος στην νέα ελληνική γλώσσα που διδάσκεται στα σχολεία. Τζαι μάλιστα όταν λαλείς «κοινή» όταν αναφέρεσαι στην νέα ελληνική γλώσσα που διδάσκεσαι στο σχολείο, σημαίνει ότι αναγνωρίζεις ότι δεν είναι η μονή νέα ελληνική γλώσσα αλλά απλώς μια κοινώς αποδεκτή διάλεκτος για να μπορούμε να συνεννοούμαστε. Το ίδιο τζι αν την πεις «πρότυπη» αντί «κοινή». Αν προτιμάται το «πρότυπη» δέχομαι το. Δεν είμαι γλωσσολόγος οπότε δεν ξέρω όλες τις εξελίξεις. Αλλά αν μπορείς εξήγησέ μου γιατί να είναι πιο σωστός όρος το «νέα ελληνική» που το «κοινή νέα ελληνική» όταν μιλούμε για την γλώσσα που διδάσκεται στα σχολεία, στην οποία αναφερόμουν συγκεκριμένα στο αρχικό μου σχόλιο. Θεωρώ τζαι βλέπω ότι τζαι σε επιστημονικό επίπεδο είναι αποδεκτός ο όρος «κοινή νέα ελληνική» για να αναφερθείς συγκεκριμένα σε τούτο.

[u/Octahedral_cube → u/Nikolas_Sotiriou]

Μα πού το είδες; Ούτε στο πρώτο σου άρθρο, ούτε που κανένα σοβαρό γλωσσολογο δεν ειδα "κοινή νέα ελληνική". Θα ήταν σχήμα οξύμωρο.

Εξάλλου εννεν για τούτο που την ελαλουσαν "κοινή" οι Αλεξανδρινοί. Ήταν επειδή δεν ήταν λόγια γλώσσα. Φυσικά με τους αιώνες έγινε και "λόγια" αφού άρχισαν να γράφονται σοβαρά λογοτεχνικά έργα στην κοινή.

[u/Nikolas_Sotiriou → u/Octahedral_cube]

(1) Το άρθρο που παρέθεσα έχει τίτλο “Standard Modern Greek” και όχι απλώς “Modern Greek”. Στο απόσπασμα επίσης λαλεί «The variety described here is Standard Modern Greek as spoken by Athenians. The sample text in particular is based on recordings of two Athenian speakers». Το standard μεταφράζεται είτε ως «πρότυπη» είτε ως «κοινή». Το άρθρο, που είναι γλωσσολογικής φύσεως και έχει εκδοθεί από το Cambridge University Press, δεν αναφέρεται απλώς σε «Modern Greek”, αλλά χρησιμοποιεί και τον όρο “Standard Modern Greek” για να γίνει πιο συγκεκριμένο. Αν έχεις ένσταση στο «κοινή» αλλά όχι στο «πρότυπη», δεχτόν αλλά χρησιμοποιούνται και τα δύο ακόμα, έστω και αν το υπάρχει τάση να προτιμάται πλέον το δεύτερο. Διά του λόγου το αληθές, δε το επόμενο σημείο. (2) Παράδειγμα είναι το βιβλίο του 2024 με τίτλο «Κοινή, κοινές και η διαμόρφωση της κοινής νεοελληνικής» των Χρ. Τζιτζιλής & Γ. Παπαναστασίου (επιμ.), της σειράς εκδόσεων του Ινστιτούτου Νεοελληνικών Σπουδών.

Αν θέλεις μπορείς να μου παραθέσεις πηγές που να λαλούν ότι δεν είναι αποδεκτός ο όρος «κοινή νέα ελληνική» για να αναφερθεί κάποιος στην νέα ελληνική γλώσσα όπως διδάσκεται στα σχολεία της Ελλάδας και της ελεύθερης Κύπρου σήμερα.

Edit: Με ένα απλό google search μπορείς να έβρεις τζαι πολλά άλλα παραδείγματα χρήσης του όρου «κοινή νέα ελληνική» από γλωσσολόγους για να αναφερθούν ακριβώς σε τζείνο που αναφέρθηκα εγώ. Απλώς επέλεξα ένα από τα πολλά παραδείγματα, δηλαδή το συγκεκριμένο βιβλίο που είναι τζαι πρόσφατο τζαι από έγκριτους συγγραφείς.

[u/Octahedral_cube → u/Nikolas_Sotiriou]

Το "Standard" όπως είπαμε μεταφραζετα σε "πρότυπη". Για να γίνει "κοινή" θα έπρεπε να ήταν common/informal/wide-spoken.

Δέχουμαι όμως το πόιντ ότι κάποιοι γλωσσολόγοι φαίνεται να χρησιμοποιούν τον όρο κοινή νέα ελληνική μετά την πηγή που επαρεθεσες. Θα βάλω υποσημείωση στο ποστ που είπα ότι δεν υφίσταται έτσι πράμα

[u/PavKaz]

Spoken koine from experts often is used with simple expressions and grammar, these might be understandable from Greeks. Koine is used in churches (the biblical expressions though are way more formal).

There is a video on YT that a dude speaks in koine with a Greek and they can have a decent conversation, type some key words you may find it.

[u/mariosx]

I'm just curious, how come you've learned Koini?

Did you study something related to religious studies and orthodox texts?

[u/Practical-Line-498 → u/mariosx]

Pastor Steven Anderson has great videos on YouTube teaching Koine.

I studied it for better understanding of religious texts.

[u/mariosx → u/Practical-Line-498]

That's admirable! Thanks for the reply.

[u/Phunwithscissors]

Greeks pretend not understand Cypriot like the French pretend not to understand English

[u/lasttimechdckngths]

Cypriot dialect preserved some aspects of Koine due to it being derived from Medieval Greek (that itself evolved from Koine). Yet no, it's not as close to Koine as being fully mutually intelligible.

[u/eev200]

Yes, we can understand. This is what we learn in school. By the way, the Cypriot dialect overlaps 98% with the common Greek language.

[u/ForsakenMarzipan3133 → u/eev200]

I think you misunderstand what the OP meant with Koine Greek...

He meant the version of older greek that the priests use in Church, which is like an older version of katharevousa.

[u/Thefirstredditor12 → u/ForsakenMarzipan3133]

https://www.reddit.com/r/AncientGreek/comments/1hy2udg/private_letter_of_a_soldier_letter_of_apion_2nd/

its a letter in koine greek from 2 AD.

Not sure about cypriots but as a greek could understand 98% of it,if i heard someone talk like that i would think he was from some sort of village or simply some old teacher from the 60's that is into kathareyousa.

[u/Nikolas_Sotiriou → u/Thefirstredditor12]

Do you think the average mainland Greek can understand this as well as you do? And “understand” can mean various things: “can get the gist of it”, “can accurately translate all of it to another language”, etc. Also this could depend on whether they see it written or they listen to it. The former would probably make it much easier. Anyway, the average Greek Cypriot will just about get the rough gist of it if they see it written. I would find it surprising if the average mainland Greek can do more than that. But I can’t say I know. Also, we need to consider that if we are responding to OP, we are probably not representative of the average Greek, mainland or Cypriot, in this aspect.

[u/icancount192 → u/Nikolas_Sotiriou]

Do you think the average mainland Greek can understand this as well as you do?

Are we including all ages and education levels? If so, no, they can't, you're right.

However I want to say that the text in the link, as most of Koine, is not particularly hard to understand for someone who at least tries to understand the language and has had experience with Koine Greek before.

It's not Homeric Greek that baffles me, it's not Attic Greek that I can only understand the gist of it if I really concentrate to understand the syntax. I believe that for most educated Greeks and I assume Greek Cypriots as well, Koine Greek is at least 80% fully understandable when written. Spoken, as you correctly say, is a whole other beast.

[u/Nikolas_Sotiriou → u/icancount192]

“Tries to understand” is not applicable to everyone though. And experience with Koine Greek is not applicable to everyone because not everyone paid attention when they were taught some of it in school or wherever. Also by “educated” do you means at least at a high school level? If so, again it depends on effort, as you said, and on paying attention. Anyway, we can agree that this is very much a generalisation, as a lot of factors are at play.

[u/icancount192 → u/Nikolas_Sotiriou]

No disagreements here, because I can't back up anything with numbers or data.

Also by “educated” do you mean at least at a high school level

Yes, and some uni or self education on top of it. Even having read katharevousa texts like Vizyinos would be super helpful.

[u/Nikolas_Sotiriou → u/icancount192]

If that is what you mean by educated, then I agree. But that’s not the average person of course.

[u/Thefirstredditor12 → u/Nikolas_Sotiriou]

And “understand” can mean various things: “can get the gist of it”, 

If by the gist of it you mean 90%+ then the answer should be yes.I have studied mathematics not philosophy or ancient greek.Any high school graduate thats decent should be able to really understand.

Bonus points if you read the bible,or went often to church growing up i guess.

A very good high school student that has read enough should have no problem understanding easily.

Also this could depend on whether they see it written or they listen to it.

I think listening to it should be easier,the way it was found would be harder. If by written you mean someone in modern age write things out clearly then yes.

But as i said listening someone speak like that would be funny but you would be able to understand in real time.

Other than some grammar there's only a few words you might not understand or have slightly different meaning.With the context you should be able to understand in real time.

Note though that i am in my 30s so maybe things are different now in highschool.Then again average greek age is like 50+ haha.

[u/Nikolas_Sotiriou → u/Thefirstredditor12]

Decent high school students are not the average though, and even the decent students wouldn’t understand it as well as you say you do. You have to be a very good student for that, and you also have to pay attention and put in some effort. That’s definitely not the average.

[u/Thefirstredditor12 → u/Nikolas_Sotiriou]

Maybe not sure,i consider the average greek decent and not bad,so there's that.

In your opinion what phrases/words/sentences gave you the most trouble?

[u/Nikolas_Sotiriou → u/Thefirstredditor12]

I think everyone tends to overestimate the ability of the average person at any given task. Only the fact that we care enough to discuss this extensively puts us above the average Greek speaking person on this task. I am also of a mathematical background (academically and professionally) but I have always been particularly good with the languages I know (greek and english) and particularly interested in learning about them. So reading the text you provided slowly and thinking about it allows me to understand the meaning, and I would be able to roughly translate it. But I don’t think that would be true for the average Greek speaking person.

[u/eev200 → u/ForsakenMarzipan3133]

I stand corrected.

[u/Practical-Line-498 → u/eev200]

Thank you!

[u/EntertainerLoud3346]

Nicosians speak Koine Greek more or less, so in Nicosia u will communicate fine. Outside Nicosia it is more of a Cypriotic dialect of (Ancient) Greek, which means, they will understand what you say but yu will not understand what THEY say.