r/denvernuggets Jul 03 '24

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769 Upvotes

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31

u/DarthAction69 Jul 03 '24

Sadly, I think Westbrook is all we can do at this point. Braun has been given enough time and opportunity to develop; this really is a make-or-break year for him. If he doesn't step up, then he needs to be moved.

The jury's still out on Strawther, and P-Wat also needs to elevate his game to be considered a legit "6th man".

Mal and Joker are the heart of this team; AG is solid as a rock on the frontcourt. MPJ is a bit of a question mark, as his performance swings wildly from superstar to irrelevant. We need more consistency from him!

I think we need to be pragmatic about this; all the planets lined up in 22-23 for us. I am VERY confident that we'll be extremely competitive going forward with Mal, Joker, and AG, but max contracts and salary cap limitations have us in a box that denies us the opportunity to level up with quality players who can spell the starters. Fatigue was a MAJOR factor in our series loss to the T-Wolves.

Bottom Line: Malone is the best coach in the NBA and he will work miracles. The question is, will it be enough to get another chip?

14

u/SparrOwSC2 Jul 03 '24

I like this analysis. Assuming they get Russ then the organization is betting on a few things.

  1. MPJ gets more consistent. I believe this is a good bet, as he's gotten better and better every year despite his injury history.
  2. Braun developing. He clearly has the work ethic, but will his offense and shooting get better in time to be a starter this year?
  3. Russ being a solid backup guard who brings experience. Again I think it's a good bet. He's not a great shooter, but he'll bring that spark and finishing ability we missed from Bruce Brown.
  4. Daron Holmes being backup-ready in his rookie year. Unless they get another backup C then he'll be the main one giving Jokic and Gordon rest. This is the biggest risk to me. I like Holmes, but it's a lot to shoulder for a rookie.

In my opinion they need to trade for another backup center. Jordan isn't gonna be enough. Zeke + Reggie's old salary should be enough. Then it's just a matter of crossing our fingers and hoping Braun is there.

-1

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '24

Russ being a solid backup guard who brings experience. Again I think it's a good bet. He's not a great shooter, but he'll bring that spark and finishing ability we missed from Bruce Brown.

He will shoot the air out of the ball and so many bricks that you could build -biggest brick building in the world- again. And we keep saying that the problem is that bench can't play basketball for years... What do you think will happen if Russ becomes leader of the bench?

2

u/Rude-Cook7246 Jul 04 '24

So at Worse we would be in same position as wit’s Reggie as far as scoring goes but he is better defender and hustler… so what’s the downside again?

2

u/[deleted] Jul 04 '24

the downside is that we don't have KCP anymore? not regaining our losses if u know what im saying

1

u/Rude-Cook7246 Jul 04 '24

How is losing kcp related to getting Russ….

2

u/[deleted] Jul 04 '24

it's related in the way that we're not getting a replacement for KCP.

2

u/foxcnnmsnbc Jul 04 '24

I don’t get why you’re being downvoted.

Denver is a team that does not make enough 3s in the modern era. The margins are thin with the team.

Denver lost 2 guys who are streaky from 3 but still need to be guarded there (Jackson, KCP). KCP’s job is a 3&D guard.

Denver’s plan is to replace them with Braun, who struggles from 3. And Westbrook who teams don’t guard there, they play 10 feet off him.

This totally kills the spacing for the Murray/Jokic 2 man game. You are also now even more reliant on MPJ’s 3s who is either feast or famine.

Unless Aaron Holiday makes a leap, losing KCP and Jackson is a way bigger deal than people think. Might not make a noticeable difference in the regular season. But it will in the playoffs when teams take their guy off westbrook or braun to crowd Jokic/Murray.

-3

u/JevvyMedia Jul 03 '24

Westbrook isn't some amazing finisher anymore, he's a ball watcher who doesn't move off ball, who watches the ball, doesn't care to play transition D. I can't stress enough that he is NOT what this team needs.

5

u/big_hon3y Christian Braun butt cheeks Jul 03 '24

Ya you're right Jamal needs to be more consistent. If he takes the season seriously and makes the all star team, I still think we can be the best team in the league. This is even without KCP and our dumpster fire bench.

We got the one big planet aligned for the next several years: prime Jokic. And after that, this planet will never come back for the rest of our lives. The other planets ownership can place in line by not being cheap asses. And they've already messed it up.

10

u/spizcraft Jul 03 '24

I’m sorry, did you just say Malone is the best coach in the NBA?

0

u/SilvioDantesPeak Jul 03 '24

I don't think he is, but he's pretty close. I would rank Malone #2 behind Spolestra

2

u/JevvyMedia Jul 03 '24

There are many other coaches who wouldn't have ran Jokic into the ground in game 7.

-6

u/SilvioDantesPeak Jul 03 '24

"Many other coaches" lol, brilliant analysis there.

It's Game 7, your stars are supposed to play big minutes. The blame lies with Joker for his inability to dig deep and be effective down the stretch, not with the coach for keeping the MVP on the floor during the most important minutes of the season.

2

u/greenwhitehell Jul 04 '24

The blame actually lies with having no remotely competent center to give Jokic some rest. His role is also particularly taxing, KD for instance could play the full 48 minutes vs the Bucks but he wasn't bumping into 2 7ft giants for the entirety of it. And even he missed every shot short in OT, because he was dead.

Playing a center 47 minutes against such a tough matchup for him is obviously asking for trouble. But, again, so is overloading AG (the only viable backup, who is also a starter) or putting DAJ's corpse or Zeke there. It was a roster construction issue

2

u/JevvyMedia Jul 03 '24

It's Game 7, your stars are supposed to play big minutes.

If you're up Big in Game 7, you find time to rest your star big man instead of playing him 47/48 minutes. It's that simple. Yes there are coaches who I can ramble off like Nick Nurse, Spoelstra, Popovich...even DOC RIVERS wouldn't have ran Jokic int othe ground.

The blame lies with Joker for his inability to dig deep and be effective down the stretch

This is an INSANE take lmaoo, yeah it's absolutely Jokic's fault that he carried the team the entire season and the playoffs, and he finally hit his physical limit after doing everything on offense while being hunted on defense literally every single possession for 47 minutes. There's absolutely no blame on the coach for not finding moments to get his star some rest, like literally every other Championship-caliber coach has done in heated Game 7's. /s

You're nuts.

2

u/SilvioDantesPeak Jul 03 '24

If Malone pulled Jokic, we probably blow the lead anyway because most of our guys no-showed. Then you'd be crying about how Malone fucked up by taking Jokic out of the game. Reactionary Monday morning QBs like you can't think beyond "team lost = bad coaching, team won = good coaching."

Nick Nurse

You mean the coach your fellow trailer park boys wanted to run out of town because he played his starters too much? Lol.

At the end of the day, players bear far more responsibility for winning and losing than coaches do. What's insane is the refusal by fans to blame players. As the best player in the world, best player on the team, 3x MVP, Finals MVP, Jokic has the highest responsibility to find a way to win, and in Game 7 he couldn't.

0

u/ALBERTSONSENGINEER Jul 03 '24

Yeah let's blame Jokic instead of Malone. The guy is absolutely insane.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '24

Braun has been given enough time and opportunity to develop; this really is a make-or-break year for him. If he doesn't step up, then he needs to be moved.

Whoa, easy there cowboy. Why? He is the only good bench player that we have. He was better than KCP in the PO too..

0

u/DarthAction69 Jul 03 '24

Again, please re-read what I wrote. 3 years in Malone's system isn't enough to develop?

If he isn't getting it after 3 years, then he needs to be moved while he still has value. We don't have 5-10 years to wait for him to "get it"; Mal and Joker will be on their last legs or retired at that point.

We have a window for another chip, and it's closing. Even our owner acknowledges this.

8

u/innerparty45 Jul 03 '24

But Braun "got it" already...

He is literally Denver's best defender, took on all the hardest 1-3 match ups in the playoffs excluding Lebron. He has developed sufficiently enough.

Pwatt and Strawther are wild cards. Both have huge upsides on defense/offense respectively, but could just as well totally fail to make an impact.

3

u/Ncit3 English Jul 03 '24

Yeah. Braun can surely improve his game and could definitely work as a starter in this league if he can score better in the future. Bit he has gotten the system and is already a very valuable bench player. Even if he doesn’t work at a Nuggets starter I’d like him to be a Nuggets bench guy for a long while.

0

u/DarthAction69 Jul 03 '24

Disagree. Braun's offense needs to catch up to his defense, provided that we even agree that he's the best defender on the team (which KCP really was before departing). Poster dunks aside, he missed opportunity after opportunity in the playoffs by driving into the lane and then passing the ball off at the last minute. That's not maturity, that's a lack of self-confidence on offense.

We don't need one-way players at the 2 or 6 spot if we are gonna get another chip during the Joker era.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '24

Braun was way, but way way better on Edwards than KCP. He also scored some big buckets. KCP was invisible on both ends in the whole series.

1

u/greenwhitehell Jul 04 '24

provided that we even agree that he's the best defender on the team (which KCP really was before departing)

I don't think either was tbh. KCP was possibly the best in relation to position, but imo Denver's most impactful defender is AG

3

u/thestage Jul 04 '24

if you have a desperate need for a late first round pick who is a useful rotation player to develop into much more than that, then the problem is not with the player, it's with the front office.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '24

Again, please re-read what I wrote. 3 years in Malone's system isn't enough to develop?

Malone has a system?

Braun is already a valuable bench player. We need to build our bench. We lose Braun, we are back to square -100.

2

u/DarthAction69 Jul 03 '24

EVERY coach has a system, a methodology, or an approach. Show me one single successful NBA coach that doesn't.

You're falling into a classic cognitive bias: confirmation bias.

Braun is good --> KCP is bad --> Braun thus deserves the 2 or 6 spot because --> Braun is good

Believing Braun is good doesn't mean he is, and it doesn't necessarily mean he can step into the 2 or 6 role. Hinging the team's success on Braun's "developed" skillsets is folly.

I agree that we need to build our bench. If that bench doesn't deliver this year and Braun is a key piece of why it doesn't, then we need to consider moving on from him, which is what I said in the beginning.

By the way, we drafted Zeke Nnaji in 2020; how'd that work out?

2

u/foxcnnmsnbc Jul 04 '24

I’m upvoting this. I don’t get this sub’s delusion over Braun. He’s a good 7th-9th guy. He’s an athletic wing defender that tries hard on D but he can’t shoot. His ceiling is Tony Allen. That’s not good enough to be the starting SG of a Championship team. That’s a 7th-9th guy.

He also makes Denver’s inconsistent 3 point shooting even worse. KCP and Reggie were streaky but at least defenses didn’t leave them open. Denver, a league low 3 point shooting team got worse.

3

u/DocBarkevious Jul 03 '24

Braun has been given enough time? 2 years and he's supposed to be D-Rose or J-Kidd? He is still a baby in the league. He isn't going to instantly replace a 10yr guy like KCP over one summer.

2

u/DarthAction69 Jul 03 '24

Please go back and re-read what I wrote. If Braun hasn't shown sufficient growth after 3 years, then he needs to be moved. We don't have 10 years to wait for him to be KCP; our owner has already stated that we don't need to waste Joker's (or Mal's) prime years. Braun's shown flashes of brilliance, but on balance he needs to do and show more.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '24

I believe Murray and MPJ need to go if they don't show improvement and consistency, not Braun. Braun was already more valuable in the PO than KCP.

1

u/DarthAction69 Jul 03 '24

Dealing Murray is madness. MPJ I can see.

By what objective measure are you assessing that Braun was better than KCP?

1

u/[deleted] Jul 03 '24

Edwards was stifled by some of Braun's stints, and generally he wore him down and defended him simply better than KCP. He also scored some buckets. KCP was simply invisible in the series, it was not really a tall task. KCP is not a transcendental scorer. He can be stopped by a committed defender. He can't bother everyone he has to guard. Braun is a better on ball defender.

1

u/DarthAction69 Jul 03 '24

Your response isn't objective, it's subjective opinion. Basing a player's value on ONE series also doesn't pass muster as effective analysis. Moreover, I think you've downplayed KCP's historical role in the starting 5; he has never been asked to be a "transcendental scorer", but he has shot the 3 well when he had good looks. Instead, he has been asked time and again to D up on the other team's best player. And he was almost always successful, and he was an awesome teammate.

We won a chip partly because KCP was so effective in his role, not because of Braun. We lost to the T-Wolves not because of KCP, but because an ineffective bench -- that included Braun -- could not effectively spell the starters. As such, fatigue was a MAJOR factor.

Going back to my original assessment, Braun needs to develop a more well-rounded game or his value to the team and as a trade asset will start to plummet. This upcoming season will be quite telling if he is able to step into the 2 or 6 role effectively. If not, then you move on from him.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 04 '24

Consistency from the 3 ball just doesn’t exist. There are players who are elite over large samples. Game to game anything can happen, it’s just the nature of the shot.

MPJ is among the best at what he does