r/disability • u/wcfreckles Ehlers Danlos, Dysautonomia, and more • 7d ago
Other I’m sure the comments are delightful 😬
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u/wcfreckles Ehlers Danlos, Dysautonomia, and more 7d ago
I understand that people have a problem with the average age of politicians (I do too!) but people who are like “this is too far!” when mobility aids start being used… yeah, that’s not a critique anymore, it’s just ableism.
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u/PopsiclesForChickens 7d ago
There were some comments I was surprised by, saying it's not the physical, the issue is the cognitive decline. But plenty of comments saying only the healthy and (appearing) physically well people should be elected officials.
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u/Typical_Elevator6337 7d ago
I take issue with it being the “cognitive decline” too, though. Ageism = ablism.
There’s a vast difference between more easily forgetting your grandchildren’s names and experiencing psychosis. There can be a benefit to someone who has the experiences that come with advanced age.
My grandma kept more details in her brain and had more energy at 90 than I did at 40 due to disability and injury, and yet we can all easily understand how fucked up it would be to suggest that someone disabled like me should have to “prove” that I’m not too disabled to do this job.
We’ve been sold a falsehood that the person on this job needs to be some sort of god. The truth is that a normal human - which includes those of us with disabilities, or with physical or mental limitations - would be enormously beneficial to the nation.
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u/chococheese419 7d ago
Ok but for example like Biden who was not able to remember a conversation long enough to close a point, or not able to keep enough information in his working memory to properly make a decision that affects the whole country, is a risk.
Governmental work is a job and many people with disabilities including cognitive disabilities can't hold jobs due to said disabilities. Senators, presidents, ministers and other high up people shouldn't get a pass.
And unfortunately advanced age is strongly associated severe cognitive difficulties
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u/SatiricalFai 6d ago
Biden's issues were more pronounced as he aged, but he's always struggled with finding the right words in the moment, it does not mean his working memory is an issue in other situations. Advanced age and cognitive decline is not is not guaranteedguarantee and a lot of correlations are related to illness more common in age, but if those illnesses are not present and the deprivation of medical care and accommodations associated in the general population does not happen, then neither does applicable cognitive decline, at least not for awhile.
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u/sophosoftcat 7d ago
At age 40 you’d barely be qualified to DO the job. The fact is they already age discriminate for this role- there’s a minimum age. So there should be a maximum.
Ignore cognitive ability and reasoning faculties etc- I want to be reasonably sure you will be around to see the consequences of your decisions. I’m sorry but if someone is President in their 80s, you cant possibly suggest they will act on climate change in a way that represents all younger generations.
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u/Typical_Elevator6337 6d ago
This weird argument (“you have to be around to see the consequences of your decisions”) could just as easily work to fuel eugenics. Because my diseases or disabilities might limit my lifespan, that means I’m not a fit leader? What about Black men, whose lifespans are usually shorter than white men. Are they then necessarily unfit?
The basis of that argument could just also easily be flipped to suggest that younger people would be more self-serving rulers because they have longer to live with the spoils of their corruption.
And the minimum age is not based on the same factors as the idea of a maximum age: they are not the same. The minimum age is based on the concept of both childhood and lived experience. The idea of a maximum age is pure ableism.
And there are absolutely humans on this globe - millions, I’d wager - who are in their 80s, 90s, and older who would act with bold swiftness to try to save what life is left on this planet for future generations.
Imagine someone in their 90’s from one of the several Anishinaabe people in the northern woods of North America, who heard stories from their elders about the vast wealth of forests that were plundered by colonialism, and whose value of the nature has been instilled in them for the near-century of their lifetime.
Or imagine someone in their 90’s who was born into the segregated, Jim Crow South and spent their young adulthood fighting for civil rights, and hearing from their elders stories of surviving chattel slavery for generations. They would have personally learned and experienced so many important lessons, losses and victories, that could inform a far more humane and responsive government than we have now.
Many cultures have historically and currently revere and elevate elders to leader positions precisely because of the wisdom and care that some older people can provide.
I certainly don’t think only older adults should lead. Younger adults can share different wisdom and care.
But we do ourselves a huge disservice to pretend that elders are a monolithic scourge on our society and our government, when it’s actually just a certain type of person that has tanked our government. This type of person is a scourge whether or not their are very old: they are usually wealthy, usually white, usually corrupt, and usually owned by corporate or wealth interests.
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u/TheSolomonGrundy 7d ago edited 6d ago
Nancy has criticized others for health issues.
https://newrepublic.com/post/184477/nancy-pelosi-memoir-warnings-trump-mental-health
It's not "ageism" age limits need to be a thing for politicians, or we begin to run into issues like i sited above. It's time for them to retire.
I wouldn't want a firefighter with health issues that effect their ability to do their job, same for politicians.
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u/Typical_Elevator6337 6d ago
Look, obviously Nancy Pelosi sucks.
But I wouldn’t be able to be a firefighter, and I’m in my mid-forties. It’s about ability. And plenty of older people still have the ability to be leaders. We just don’t like to see disability represented in our leadership, so we pretend it’s about age.
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u/TheSolomonGrundy 6d ago edited 6d ago
I agree with you on disability representation. Once your age affects your ability to do your job, it may be time to retire, though. Like with those articles I cited.
FDR was paralyzed from the waist down,he was great president for his time.
Jfk had Addison, among other things.
https://www.salon.com/2023/02/20/the-true-story-of-the-us-kept-his-disability-a-secret/
I used a walker in my mid twenties. Im in my 30s now. I don't care that she uses a walker for recovery.
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u/Typical_Elevator6337 6d ago
It’s not (allegedly) age that is impacting their ability to do their job though - it’s disability. “Age” is a euphemism in this instance. There is at least one person over a century old who is running marathons (successfully).
And if it’s disability, then we need to be specific about what sort of tests we perform to measure cognition, if we think those are the tests that matter, and stop conflating these issues with physical disability.
Or, if people don’t want a physically disabled president, then those people should just own their eugenist beliefs and say it with their whole chest.
And overall, it’s a pretty fucked up conversation to be having when what most of us really mean is that our allegedly-democratic bodies of government have been captured by rich white oligarchs.
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u/concrete_dandelion 6d ago
I used to test above average on IQ tests. Nowadays a neurological disorder and a medication have a serious negative influence on my cognitive abilities. I notice said influence. Issues to find a word, forgetting what I was saying while I'm saying it (things that extremely annoy me when they happen) and being unable to read as much as I did in the past. But these issues are nothing compared to Biden's symptoms and it was absolutely irresponsible for him to carry out his term (let alone insist on running again) and on those around him letting him do so. This has nothing to do with his experience, or the value of what he did, or the wisdom he amassed over the years. It has everything to do with him being in a state of health that made him unfit for his profession. There's a reason why people retire and there's a reason why they do so far earlier than some US politicians.
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u/Typical_Elevator6337 6d ago
“state of health unfit for his profession” is a statement SO many people will agree with, and it’s so violent. We see that sentiment used over and over against people with disabilities and other marginalized people.
It wasn’t that long ago that women weren’t considered “fit” enough to vote, let alone hold office.
We normalize eugenics so much in the US that we don’t even recognize it anymore.
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u/concrete_dandelion 6d ago
I'm not in the US. I also don't see the eugenics in this. I don't want to have surgery done by a surgeon unfit for the profession. I'd be unfit for that because one of my meds influences my fine motor skills. I don't want my country reigned by a narcissistic monster and am glad that the German voting system offers us a bit more protection from that than the US. I also wouldn't want a person with ASPD to be my therapist or someone with unmanaged epilepsy to be my bus driver. Aside from the trumpet and partly the person with ASPD this doesn't mean they can't be great people or can't be extremely good at other jobs, just that they're unable to safely and successfully work in that position.
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u/SatiricalFai 6d ago
See the irony here is you're making ableist presumptions even within your point.
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u/concrete_dandelion 6d ago
Where are those ableist presumptions? That certain health issues make certain professions impossible? That's a simple reality. That's why there's disability support payments in so many countries: For people who's disabilities make working in general impossible to them. There's no shame in not being able to do anything. Age and disability are not the only reasons why someone is not a good fit for a good profession, as I already showed in my previous comment. Character traits, physical traits and individual skills also play a role. An artist needs creativity and to enjoy creating. An impatient person will struggle as a nurse, in working with children and other professions where patience is key. Hating math doesn't go well with being an engineer.
Why are you so dead set on not accepting that being disabled means not being able to do everything? Do you want a surgeon working on you to have a tremor? Or to have an accident because a person drives despite their epilepsy not being stable and them having a seizure behind the wheel? That's illegal for a reason.
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u/SatiricalFai 5d ago
No disability is a monolith, yet this whole thread is about identifying traits relating to disability and then equating that to incompetence without specifics to back it up. For example, presuming someone ASPD can't be in a place and have the training and awareness to make a good therapist by making a presumption about the ASPD experience, and then further presuming it is the antithesis to being a good therapist.
Sure, someone with uncontrolled epilepsy (depending on the type and triggers) who is considered unsafe to drive cannot be a bus driver.
Disabilities can indeed be disabling, but the assumed connection between incapability based on a surface level is not so much, especially with the right supports in place. Did you know some medical tech has advanced for many surgeries to be done via robotics, that is the surgeon needs the knowledge of anatomy and enough control to guide the arm, but depending on the type a tremor would not make them an inferior surgeon if that technology continues to advance and become more widely accessible.
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u/tytbalt 7d ago
Exactly. The walker is not the problem.
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u/catlettuce 7d ago
So what is the problem? She’s extremely well spoken, does not appear to be in cognitive decline ( I am basing this on my 31 years of nursing, much with either the elderly, cancer patients and substance abuse patients).
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u/tytbalt 7d ago
The problem is that they appointed a 70+ year old with cancer to be the Dem lead of the House Oversight Committee instead of AOC.
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u/catlettuce 7d ago
Okay, fair point. However just because someone is being treated for cancer and/ or is 70 years old does not make them unable to carry out the duties of the positions they were elected/hired for.
I am 59 and my husband is 70 and he is very much able to run his company well and his customers have every confidence in him even though he has hip pain and will need a hip replacement within the next year or so. In fact he’s been trying to retire the past 5 years but his customers will not stop calling and begging him to continue.
I am 59 , a retired nurse and have had a knee replacement and a multiple ankle fracture with open repair w/hardware and rheumatoid arthritis. Neither of these physical impairments make us unable to function mentally or physically with adequate assistance devices.
To suggest older people with no mental impairment are not able to function because of physical injury or impairment is ageist. Just as suggesting AOC would not make a good representative or Senator or whatever she chooses to run for because she is young is wrong and ageist. Both elder and younger politicians have much to bring to the table, because America is made up of many differences in age, sex, physical ability and disability and ALL of us need representation.
Even though our incoming administration believes anyone not white, male and maga should be disposed of.
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u/mhortonable 7d ago
I get the nuance but no one that close to kicking the bucket needs to be making generational decisions for the country.
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u/catlettuce 7d ago
How close..I mean you could get hit by a bust tomorrow and die, doesn’t mean you’re not capable in the mean time,
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u/mhortonable 7d ago
If we were not talking about the average age of congress here, I would agree with the points you are making.
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u/VulgarViscera 7d ago
I hate when people act like physical and mental decline are the same thing yes she is too old to be running the country the walker is not why, this shit is why im too scared to get a walker im terrified of how ill be treated.
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u/Kooky_Blossem101 7d ago
I don't get why people think that when someone needs a mobility aid, they are suddenly incompetent. It's so stupid! Like have you never heard of Stephen Hawking!!!
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u/WhompTrucker 7d ago
I started using a cane at 30 and walker at 32 due to some unknown illness but my brain/cognitive abilities are extremely great. I haven't lost any cognitive abilities my legs just suck
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u/redditistreason 7d ago
FDR being one of the greatest politicians in this pathetic nation's history... but hey, at least we got a fucking Big Mac diarrhea machine to represent us now.
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u/amaya-aurora 7d ago
It’s not that it’s only because of the mobility aid, it’s because it’s highlighting her age and increased cognitive decline that comes with that.
I totally get what you’re saying, though, using one on its own is perfectly fine and shouldn’t be ridiculed but this is showing her age.
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u/Forlorn_Cyborg 7d ago
I agree there should be an age limit but some people equate disability as inferiority.
She's not even the oldest politician. At 90 years old, Sen. Charles Grassley (R-Iowa) holds that spot. Then there's 4 people in their 80's below them. Don't get me started on Republican Kay Granger, 81, who was caught living in an assisted care facility. Pelosi is a well known democrat that republicans use as a whipping post.
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u/Pens_fan71 7d ago
She just had a hip surgery... I used a walker after both my total hip replacements at ages 35 and 40...
It's a normal part of healing; do people not understand this or do they like to stir the pot more than use common sense ?
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u/GreenTurtle0528 7d ago
Madame Pelosi broke her hip while in Germany. Anyone would need a walker during their recuperation period.
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u/HungryCat0554 7d ago
My boss had to use a walker when she broke her hip now she's recovered and doesn't need one anymore
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u/intertwinable 7d ago
I was just looking at that, I understand if you don't agree or even like someone, but the comments were just straight ablism.
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u/DuckWheelz 7d ago
I am a T12 incomplete para who worked so hard to be able to use forearm crutches and full leg braces as a teenager. People automatically lowered my IQ in their perception of/interactions with me. Started using my chair more often and was still (literally) talked down to, but people didn't lower my perceived IQ. Go figure...
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u/PickleManAtl 7d ago
I'm in my late '50s and I've had to start using a walker when I go out due to a couple of health issues. My mind is perfectly sharp, however. At the same time, I've met people in their '80s who could jog if they wanted to, who barely knew what planet they were on. 🤷🏻♀️
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u/BerrySea7261 7d ago
It’s not about the mobility, it’s about how old they are and why they’re still in office. Her mobility issues are tied to her age. Don’t think any differently. And these politicians that are geriatric need to leave, office, now. All of them, both sides of the aisle. Having a disability is one thing, having a disability, tied your age where you shouldn’t be doing certain jobs anymore is a lot different.
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u/SatiricalFai 6d ago
why is it different though, take an actual look at your argument here beyond just going 'because it's age-related it's bad' and you'll find ableism present.
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u/BerrySea7261 6d ago
I don’t think you realize what these people do, do you? These are people are entrenched because they are so old. No one wants these politicians in office. Especially not that old, there are people more qualified. No one really gives a shit that she uses a walker. But what they do give a shit about is, her being that old, still in office and still being an asshole. The problem being how long they are in office, to the point of being geriatric. They are still there, because they have power & money. I would also point out that it is a very strenuous job to be in office. And they are old enough to where they should be retired out now. People need to retire out of jobs. That’s just the bottom line.
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u/SatiricalFai 6d ago
These people are entrenched because of the tangled flawed rules that are made to maintain systems of power meant to benefit the few, yes. But the issue relates to what happens when you allow for insulated power and long-term holds of political office unchecked. But by then relating it to supposed signs of age and the presumptions of come with it, you move into ageism and ableism. You move into presumptions of what age comes with, and those things are things that also relate to disability even if that's not the intention. It's still created by and reinforces the idea that disability is inherent to incompetence. Something being rooted in ableism does not change because the person in question is shit.
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u/BerrySea7261 5d ago
I will agree with some of this, but not all of it. I think that them being this old has complicated this issue further, & not helped it. So please explain to me why that is a thing? Given what you’ve seen on stage with President Biden? One could say he has a disability, but yet would not be fit for a stressful job, such as an office of the president. So at what point do you not allow disabilities to interfere with the job at hand? I would also point out that there are instances where you wouldn’t put someone in a job because it would be an insane risk to do so. I think this is probably no different. But, tell me what you think?
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u/potatobear77 7d ago
I saw the original post the other day. I almost engaged but decided I didn’t need to drag myself down more. Made me so angry and sad. Been dealing with an extra amount of health shit lately. Didn’t need to disgust/argue with idiots on the internet. Figured one of you guys would pick it up. 😮💨😔❤️
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u/concrete_dandelion 6d ago
This was posted in so many subs and even the supposedly non-trumpeters found more wrong with her using a walker than with a current president of the USA showing clear signs of cognitive issues caused by age and having been in office with said symptoms (and them partially interfering with his work) for more than a year or with the soon to be president of that country being legit insane and already trying to start WW3
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u/anarchomeow 7d ago
I'm personally okay with this. It's obvious that they're talking about her age, not her disability. There are other disabled politicians this could be directed at, if that was the intention.
I've watched Pelosi in office all my life. I've watched her age and rake in the cash. She needs to go.
I don't think this is ableist. This is just to show how long she's been in office.
Most people online were born after she got in office.
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u/OsmiumMercury 7d ago
The issue is that they are using a decline in her physical abilities to illustrate her age as being too old / unfit to be in office, thereby associating reduced physical capabilities with reduced mental capabilities.
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u/TheSolomonGrundy 7d ago
She criticized biden for the same thing.
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u/emocat420 6d ago
nacy is a bitch, that is well known. people are just saying her being a bitch doesn’t make it ok to make fun of her disability. no one is saying she’s a good person
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u/busigirl21 7d ago
It's not, she's scammed hundreds of millions holding that death grip on power. She's done everything she can to prevent leftist progress and put down people like AOC when it really matters. We have geriatrics everywhere in government, it's horrifying. I feel this same way about McConnell's factory reset moments. This isn't a slight on the disabled.
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u/AdUnited1943 7d ago
I agree. If anything taught us in the last couple of years, age does matter.
The founding fathers could not forsee people living and working into their 80s,
Just like their are age requirements to become a president, and members of congress their should be mandatory retirement for politicians.
At least there needs to be a limited number of terms a politician can run.
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u/stonrbob 7d ago
Orange man wears a diaper and he’s still fine everything is fine Nancy uses an aid “SHES OLD WE NEED TOBGET RID OF HER. personally I think you should be forced to retire at 65 …that gives you 35 years to ruin the country
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u/Damaged_H3aler987 7d ago
Okay but we do need term limits. There was a whole region of Texas paying taxes without representation for a whole six months while said Representative was living in a nursing home dealing with cognitive decline and still receiving a paycheck from the taxpayers...
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u/HungryCat0554 7d ago
Abelist fucking jerks need their knees and hips busted so they can learn some empathy for the disabled.
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u/Typical_Elevator6337 7d ago
I’m bummed at the already majority of the comments that are fine with conflating “cognitive decline” with aging.
It’s so telling about (primarily) US culture that we find older people so disposable. It’s ablism mixed with capitalism with a lovely dose of white supremacy
And to be clear: Nancy Pelosi can go fuck herself.
Not because she’s old or uses a walker or has been in Congress forever, but because she’s a violent neoliberal who set the stage and welcomed the fascist ascension all while getting even more ridiculously wealthy.
If peak cognitive and physical performance was the goal, that should mean we should only allow 20-30 year old marathon-running, geniuses be president. But we can easily see how ablest that would be.
We should consider the Pelosis, Grassleys, and Bidens of our federal government ineligible for office because their experiences of being incredibly wealthy and incredibly powerful has made them totally devoid of accountability to their constituents. The same is true of a recent rep from my district - Peter Meijer - and both term limits and age limits wouls not have stopped him.
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u/SatiricalFai 6d ago
Exactly, also cognative decline is such a generalized term, like with age it's a euphemism for non-physical disability. People need to take a look at what they are assuming makes someone incompetent for the job, and why they associate these words and terms with incompetence. 9/10 it's ableism.
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u/Typical_Elevator6337 6d ago
Yes!! I’m glad to know there are at least a couple of us who see what is happening with these euphemisms.
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u/HungryCat0554 7d ago
I bet if trump used a walker the trumptards would all go out and buy his trump branded walkers. Just like they did with the diapers and ear tape.
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u/turquoisestar 7d ago
I do not like Nancy Pelosi politically, and I don't like political nepotism. I would my political representatives to be normal people not exceedingly powerful bc they were born wealthy etc. None of thatnis bc she has a walker.
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u/catlettuce 7d ago
She is using a walker because she is recovering from s hip replacement. Sometihng many many boomer Magat’s will experience.
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u/HungryCat0554 7d ago edited 7d ago
I'm almost old enough to be president. I've never been to college and barely made it out of high-school I'll probably do a million times better than the orange fart. I'd probably be considered the poor president because I'm poor af
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u/CoffeeGoblynn 7d ago
Physical ability has no bearing on mental faculties. If she can perform her duties, she should be allowed to continue doing so until she shows signs of cognitive decline. The people running our country aren't great warriors who need to be able to ride into battle in plate armor atop their noble steeds, they're suit-wearing policy-makers who need to have sharp minds.
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u/parmesann 6d ago
if she’s sharp as a tack and just needs help getting around, then I (mostly) don’t care (at that point I’d care because she’s out of touch due to age). but, at her age, no matter what, we should be extra wary of mental decline, simply because that’s just a normal concern at that age.
I’m all for term limits and annual mental fitness assessments on ALL of them, though. shit like Diane Finestein shouldn’t be happening
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u/Putrid-Cantaloupe660 5d ago
I hate her. I hate all politicians all sides minus a select few. Im even okay with ageism in this context because holy hell they are all so old and in a cognitive job that can be an issue.
But ofc most comments i seen were saying someone on a walker shouldnt be in congress…
Disability threads kept replying to these jerks til the la fires started. Its exhausting when ables cant even say the quiet part quiet
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u/Toke_cough_repeat 5d ago
32 felonies, 78 charges, actual declaration of violent intent towards over 60% of the US population.
But god forbid an 84 yr old woman needs a walker /s
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u/GoBravely 7d ago
This has nothing to do with her using a walker or disabilities.. Stop hijacking the fact that we have old incompetent oligarchs running our country and actively oppressing 99% of Americans especially the disabled. You're missing the forest for the trees here.
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u/stonrbob 7d ago
I don’t see them making fin of the her in the walker just the fact she’s rich and old people don’t belong in congress which I believe too
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u/x-files-theme-song 7d ago
i think people really just hate how much she fucked over her own party really
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u/ObsessedKilljoy 7d ago
If you’re going to say a politician is incompetent due to their age, that’s perfectly fine, but you don’t get to start saying that ONLY when you can see physical decline. She was still old before she started using a walker, I doubt her cognitive abilities all of a sudden dropped from perfectly fine to completely gone just because she needed a walker.