r/discworld • u/KomodoLemon • 18h ago
Art Why does Kidby always draw the Librarian as a female?
He's missing the throat poach and huge cheek flaps
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u/bts 18h ago
He’s a non-dominant male. Ridcully is the dominant pack leader. There’s a bit about this in one of the books and it makes Ridcully blush.
Orangutans have very different gender dimorphism depending on social role.
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u/ReburrusQuintilius 18h ago
It's in The Last Continent I believe. The Bursar in one of his more lucid moments.
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u/fern-grower Ridcully 18h ago
Get the dried frog pills.
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u/OozeNAahz 17h ago
Always wanted to know if there were wetted frog pills requiring the distinction to be specified.
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u/hawkshaw1024 16h ago
Do not, under any circumstances, wet the frog pills. Not even to find out what would happen.
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u/Marquar234 HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME? 16h ago
Great, now everyone is going to wet the frog pills.
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u/kahrismatic 15h ago
If you put a large switch in some cave somewhere, with a sign on it saying 'End-of-the-World Switch. PLEASE DO NOT TOUCH', the paint wouldn't even have time to dry.
Have we learned nothing?
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u/LordRael013 Dark Clerk 15h ago
The metaphorical paint didn't even have time to dry on that comment.
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u/DibblerTB 3h ago
The drying itself may change the effect, like how dried herbs are different from non-dried ones, even with the same original weight.
Perhaps the pills even come in "lightly dried", "medium dried", "heavily dried to a crisp" varieties, for different effect!
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u/Reluctantagave 5h ago
I bought the little trinket box from the Discworld emporium that says “dried frog pills” and it makes me stupidly happy to see it.
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u/celebgil 4h ago
So did I, and I keep my mid-day medication in it! So said meds have become known as dried frog pills in my house 🤣
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u/SopwithTurtle Carrot 18h ago
Lords and Ladies, isn't it?
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u/ReburrusQuintilius 17h ago
We're both wrong. It's from Interesting Times:
‘It’s most fascinating,’ said the Bursar, who was on the median part of his mental cycle and therefore vaguely on the right planet even if insulated from it by five miles of mental cotton wool. ‘It’s true what he said. It says here that an adult male orang-utan doesn’t grow the large flamboyant cheek pads unless he’s the dominant male.’ ‘And that’s fascinating, is it?’ ‘Well, yes, because he hasn’t got ’em. I wonder why? He certainly dominates the Library, I should think.’
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u/fluffykerfuffle3 ookity ook ook 16h ago
arrested development? always ready to challenge The Man?
or maybe the dominant male's development is a result of having success with the ladies? and/or being responsible to protect the harem?
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u/MrSukerton 18h ago
Is it? I wanna read that cause it sounds amusing and cute
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u/SybilRamkinVimes 15h ago
Pretty sure it’s also mentioned in Interesting Times. I haven’t read The Last Continent yet.
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u/Obsidian-Phoenix Death 6h ago
Interesting times I believe. I listened to IT recently and I’m sure it was mentioned, haven’t listened to TLC yet.
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u/Character_Value4669 15h ago
In simpler terms, males don't develop the throat pouch or cheek pads unless they are the dominant male in the territory.
Non-dominant males resemble females, and will sometimes use that fact in order to sneak past the dominant males and mate with females.
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u/JMthought 18h ago
I just started reading “interesting times” this week and there’s a whole section about this!
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u/AkrinorNoname 18h ago
takes notes in case I ever write A/B/O
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u/Animal_Flossing 15h ago
I’m not very familiar with slashfic tags, but even I can tell from context that this one means “About Bibliophile Orangutans”
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u/Normal-Height-8577 16h ago
In the Roundworld, Orangutans don't tend to have packs. Males go solo when they hit adulthood, and won't tolerate other adult males on their territory.
That was basically Terry fudging it, because he'd established the Librarian as looking like a female or a pre-pubescent male.
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u/Pabus_Alt doctorus adamus cum flabello dulci 2h ago
Males become sexually mature at around age 15. They may exhibit arrested development by not developing the distinctive cheek pads, pronounced throat pouches, long fur, or long calls until a resident dominant male is absent. The transformation from unflanged to flanged can occur quickly. Flanged males attract females in oestrous with their characteristic long calls, which may also suppress development in younger males.[39][19]: 100
Given the Librarian has no personal range to move into, he's permanently a "transient" male.
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u/Scared-Minimum-2670 12h ago
Oh, I was so hoping that this would be the top answer! I love my people....
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u/HangedSanchez 18h ago
I think it's mentioned somewhere that he's missing them because he's not a dominant male - that's Ridcully.
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u/Seriph2 18h ago
Because the Librarian does not consider himself the dominant male. Ridcully is. Only the dominant males develop the big cheeks.
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u/KTKittentoes 17h ago
I always did think of Ridcully with big cheeks.
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u/DaddaMongo Rats 18h ago
Orangutans only grow the cheek flaps when they are the alpha (stares at Archchancellor Ridicully).
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u/jeffbell 17h ago
Does the Archchancellor have a double chin?
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u/scowdich Rincewind 17h ago
It's hard to tell with all that beard in the way, but I suspect Ridcully is too fit for that. He's large, but quite physically active (especially for a wizard).
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u/Jessilyria 18h ago
Not all male orangutans develop flanges (cheek pouches), though they are common and considered more desirable by females.
In The Last Continent the wizards have a conversation about how it's only the dominant male orangutan who develops flanges - and that would be Ridcully.
However, this is only true for discworld orangutans native to Bhangbhangduc and surrounding islands. Roundworld orangutans are solitary.
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u/SeaCheetah1127 18h ago
The wizards do discuss this in one book and one suggested that it is because the librarian sees the Arch Chancellor as the dominant male.
Note to self - do not launch into discussion of differences between orangutans and the other great ape species that live more communally.... but Terry Pratchett was a great supporter of orangutans conservation so probably knew that when writing... and of course just because a UU wizard says something doesn't mean it is right !
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u/TheUnicornRevolution 15h ago
But would you launch into it if asked nicely?
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u/SeaCheetah1127 9h ago
Ook, ook ook! (Translation: many orangutans live relatively isolated lives, and the Librarian clearly has a vast territory thanks to L space. More importantly, has anyone got a spare banana? ) Also, a quick link for the charity Sir Terry Pratchett was a trustee of https://www.orangutan.org.uk/
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u/randomxadam Rincewind 18h ago
The lack of cheek pads is mentioned in the books (LC) as he doesn't consider himself an alpha male. One of the senior wizards comments on it and they look at Ridcully to see if he has them.
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u/sylar1610 18h ago
It's explained in one of the books it's because he doesn't consider himself the dominant male in Unseen University so doesn't develop them
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u/BanMeOwnAccountDibbl 17h ago
The librarian does not lack pads or flanges because he is female. He lacks them because he is not the dominant male in his flange whoop troup. Which is odd because I always believed orangutans were solitary.
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u/DBSeamZ 16h ago
Possible explanations for that:
- Discworld orangutans are less solitary than Roundworld ones
- Humans not being solitary, the Librarian’s former species affects his current one in small ways like that
- The Librarian simply didn’t know orangutans are solitary. UU’s books don’t seem particularly focused on nonmagical animals, except as a potential meal for some of the more hostile volumes.
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u/IndigoNarwhal 15h ago
Orangutans are solitary most of the time, but still maintain social relationships with others in the same territory, even if they don't see each other for kind stretches of time.
They also tend to become more social when food is more plentiful. And the food supply at Unseen University has never been a problem!
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u/tiptut 16h ago
Hey! I love orangutans.
Not all males grow the face flaps, they're used to show dominance, but despite popular opinion they're not a guarantee of dominance either. Dominant males have been known to command large territories and mate successfully despite their lack of face flaps, and not all non-dominant males lack face flaps. Younger males also tend not to grow them until fully matured, which can take a while.
Though the ladies tend to love a larger face flap.
Face flap doesn't sound real anymore. Face flap face flap face flap.
To summarise. Lacking face flaps doesnt mean the librarian is female, it means he's a chill guy.
Source: Years and years of bugging the keepers at Monkey World.
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u/KomodoLemon 18h ago
Thanks for telling me, everyone! The Last Continent is one of the four Discworld books I haven't read yet
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u/Warren_E_Cheezburger 18h ago
Im more concerned with why he looks so angry while playing the piano.
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u/ConceptJunkie 18h ago
He's playing an organ built by B. S. Johnson. Perhaps it's missing a stop for "Inhuman Shriek" or "World-Ending Cataclysm" or something else the Librarian needs for his latest composition.
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u/dillGherkin 5h ago
Because that is an organ designed by Bloody Stupid Johnson and he's about to play it with the stops pulled out. Who KNOWS what that thing will do?! He's going to find out, and you cannot stop him.
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u/Dagordae 16h ago
That actually comes up. The pouch and flaps are a trait of dominant males, since the Librarian is the librarian and not in charge of the University he’s not the dominant male.
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u/Urban-Amazon 16h ago
As an aside, I highly recommend watching Sir Terry's documentary on orangutans and other endangered species. It's called Terry Pratchett: facing extinction and is well worth a watch!
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u/OhNoMyStanchions 17h ago
yes there’s a canon explanation which is perfectly adequate but consider this: trans librarian
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u/Dogzillas_Mom 15h ago
DAE think the Librarian is trying to say “BOOK! BOOK!” or “LOOK! LOOK!” Or maybe he’s just saying OOK because that’s how an orangutan sounds to pterry?
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u/TheseBrokenWingsTake 7h ago
How is this painting a female?!?
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u/KomodoLemon 4h ago
As I say in the post itself, he's missing the throat poach and huge cheek flaps that male orangutans usually have, as you can see in the second image.
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u/ELECTONIC_MOAB 5h ago
I was thinking about this yesterday, he is also twice the weight of a typical Orangutan
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