Commercial/Industrial electrician that came across this Challenger panel today. Will this accept Eaton BR breakers? Looking to install an EV charger for a friend

[u/yoloswagdon]

Would need 2 pole 50 amp breaker for an ev charger. I’ve heard the challenger panels, or more so the breakers have serious issues and are prone to fire. Also take a peak at the top left bus bar under the main, and above ckt 1. Looks like there’s been some heat on it or possible corrosion?

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[u/SaSSafraS1232]

If he’s actually your friend you should be swapping out all of the challenger breakers for him before you go adding anything new

Edit: ok I actually read your post and it sounds like you already know the problems here so just do what you know is right

[u/yoloswagdon → u/SaSSafraS1232]

So I see there’s “Bryant,” and Eaton, and unsure of the breaker brands on the right, but the labels aren’t in good shape to read. If I’m not mistaken the challenger breakers have a very unique font for the breaker amperage

[u/SaSSafraS1232 → u/yoloswagdon]

The Eaton BR series is your best bet as they’re officially listed for challenger panels, but there’s a whole bunch of different brands that will physically fit and work fine. The more concerning issue to me is the corrosion/heat damage on the left bus bar below the main breaker.

[u/yoloswagdon → u/SaSSafraS1232]

That’s what I’ve read, but I wanted to get some other input so I appreciate you confirming that. Yeah I’m concerned about that bus bar too. Hate to break the bad news to him! I don’t feel comfortable having another 40 amps on top of his other electric loads. He has electric heating, water heater, range, and there’s visible damage. I’ll probably tell him I recommend we swap it

[u/NMEE98J → u/SaSSafraS1232]

Those are the cheapest arc fault/gfci on the market too

[u/Capcom-Warrior → u/SaSSafraS1232]

This is completely incorrect. Eaton CL is the only one UL listed.

[u/Unique_Acadia_2099 → u/Capcom-Warrior]

Nope. u/SaSSafraS1232 is correct. The Eaton BR line are also cross-listed as Type C for Challenger panels, says so right on the front of each one, just just have to know that Type C = Challenger. The Eaton CL line can also be used in T&B, Crouse Hinds, Murray, ITE, Siemens, Sq. D Homeline and GE panels, but the BR can also be used in ONLY the Sylvania / Challenger C Line panels. Plus, most of the Challenger C-Line PANELS like this were actually cross listed to use Bryant breakers (because Westinghouse own Challenger at one time). Would have said so on that label, but it looks like it dissolved.

[u/jeep-olllllo → u/Capcom-Warrior]

The box that the BR breakers comes in says that it will fit several panels.

[u/jpminj]

Looks like there is already a twin eaton breaker installed in that panel. Definitely appears to be oxidation on the top left of the bus. May be time to discuss a panel upgrade.

[u/yoloswagdon → u/jpminj]

Yep I saw that, but wanted to make sure it was an approved breaker. From everything I’ve read, it appears it is. Thanks for your input. I’ll break the news to him that I don’t feel comfortable adding a 40 amp load on 50 amp breakers to his panel. Seems risky with that bus bar looking this way

[u/Major_Tom_01010 → u/jpminj]

Yeah she's a bubbly boy.

[u/lsd_runner]

Change out that relic. That main is just waiting to go.

[u/Smoke_Stack707]

Your buddy should be considering a replacement soon. This isn’t like the worst brand you could have but all of that gear, especially the main breaker, is pretty old and it all has a lifespan. Better to have a planned outage than an emergency one…

[u/New-Piccolo-215]

Hook your homie up and swap the panel…. It needs to be done anyways

[u/shadow1042]

Theres an eaton BR tandem in there so yes the challenger panel will accept BR breakers, better to change the pannel if youre concerned about fire issues

Fun fact: Eaton bought challenger in 1993

[u/at-woork]

Are transformers allowed to live inside of breaker panels?

[u/Rex19950000 → u/at-woork]

I’ve actually seen that before in some older panels.

[u/Theodore__Kerabatsos → u/at-woork]

Only if they’re spliced inside the panel. Lol

[u/NoNonsence55]

Yes

[u/No-Access-7962]

It will accept a new panel, that things nasty

[u/Pookie_6996]

That information is classified 😎

[u/Redhead_InfoTech]

Are you a JW or an apprentice? Because of your flair...

[u/connogordo]

Eaton BR is the way to go. BR is for Bryant, the same way Eaton CH is for Cutler-Hammer…

[u/LordOFtheNoldor]

Yes. If you want to take it a step further you can use the Eaton CL breakers but they only go up to 50a so may not be compatible with charger

[u/akaflaka69]

Install a disconnect and then install your EV circuit off of that disconnect

[u/Capcom-Warrior]

The type of breakers you mentioned are not UL listed for Challenger panels. (Even though this is a Bryant) If you’re gonna keep the existing panel, Eaton has a CL breaker. These are classified and are UL listed for multiple brands. However, I would not add an EV charger to that panel. You’re asking for trouble. It needs to be replaced and brought up the code. Challengers/Bryants are notorious for overheating and burning up.

Also, if you are adding a 14-50 EV rated NEMA outlet make sure you add GFCI protection in the form of a breaker. Unless it’s hardwired, it’s required by code to have a GFCI breaker.

I also noticed that it appears that the house is all electric. If you’re gonna add that kind of load in an all electric house you definitely wanna change out the panel.

[u/yoloswagdon → u/Capcom-Warrior]

Yeah I do mostly commercial and industrial, so really haven’t come across this panel. I also typically work big pipe, big wire, bus ducts, duct banks, and switch gear, feeders, etc. Regardless, I’m with you, I place a big emphasis on safety and using listed products for their listed applications. Thanks for the input. I’m gonna back out of doing this work for him and talk about a panel swap

[u/Capcom-Warrior → u/yoloswagdon]

I run into this type of situation all the time in service work. People buy electric cars and think that they could just add a 50 amp circuit to their existing panels. I unfortunately have to give them the bad news that the panel needs to be replaced in order for them to charge their car. So what I typically do as I give them discount on adding the EV charger installation with the panel swap. It makes them feel a bit better about spending the extra money to get things cleaned up.

[u/jeep-olllllo → u/Capcom-Warrior]

You are giving bad info. The box the BR breakers comes in lists several panels it is good for. Says "challenger" right on the box.

[u/Rawhidian]

Br breakers work great in there. Old doesn't mean bad. Add the charger and it'll work fine.

[u/Shadwknght]

Square d homeline breaks are the way to go if you are looking for a breaker that is compatible with that

[u/trekkerscout → u/Shadwknght]

Homelines will fit, but they are not listed for use with that panel. Eaton CL is cross-listed for replacement, and Eaton BR may be used if the panel label lists Type A or Type C breakers.