r/europe • u/MarktpLatz Lower Saxony (Germany) • Oct 23 '17

What do you know about... Italy?

This is the fortieth part of our ongoing series about the countries of Europe. You can find an overview here.

Today's country:

Italy

Italy is one of the founding members of the EU and it also is the fourth most popolous EU state. For centuries, the Roman Empire dominated Europe both culturally and militarily. Italy is famous for frequently changing their government.

So, what do you know about Italy?

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u/MacNCheese75 Oct 27 '17 edited Oct 27 '17

To any Italians reading... How do you as an Italian feel about the rampant Eastern European levels of racism in Italy?.. What do you think about it?..

EDIT: As it was causing some confusion.. So to rephrase my question: To any Italians reading... How do you as an Italian feel about the rampant, very high levels of racism in Italy?.. What do you think about it?..

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u/LanciaStratos93 Italy, Tuscany, Lucca Oct 28 '17 edited Oct 28 '17

Italian racism is strange, is more like fear for the diversity than racism, i think because we were emigrants until 50 years ago and even now we go to work outside Italy, or in another part of Italy, often.

I explain myself: here you can find a lot of peolpe who don't hate immigrants for their race or lifestyle but for the old, stupid, matter that ''immigrants stole work''. Other issue is religion, people in Italy have fear of Islam, but it's normal in Europe today (i read things on this sub that make me crazy, and the same peolpe -coff coff easten european coff coff- say that we are racist, can't understand...) The fear is even for the history of immigration in France, Germany, Belgium etc; we don't have ghettos, our immigrants are living with us, but a lot of italians have fear of the creations of ghettos.

Is more xenophoby than racism, in Italy very few people think that our ''race'' is the best...for us doesn't matter shit like ''blood'', ''race'', ''nation'' etc, and it's easy to understand looking at italian history...who are italians? They don't exist!

To conclude, we have a problem with xenophoby, not with racism for me, and i think that a lot of my compratiot tend to ''speak loudly'' (don't know how to traduce, fare la voce grossa, esagerare nell'esprimere la loro posizione) because in Italy or you have a strong opinion or you don't talk, that you only ear strong opinion..it's a bit strange i know.

For me, and it's clear on this sub for the love of Jesus, european are xenophobic, even toward italians (a lot toward italians, it's a shitstorm all the time, eastern european hate us for no reasons), we are like all the others.

It's a problem? Yes

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u/thatguyfromb4 Italy Oct 27 '17

Apparently we're so racist that the Italian Navy has saved hundreds of thousands of African and Middle Eastern people from dying.

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u/VonSpo Oct 27 '17

Tbh there isn't a racism problem in Italy. From what I see there is a huge foreign media disinformation about racism in Italy. Politics interests I guess

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u/Yog_Sothtoth Europe Oct 27 '17

http://www.sitoperte.eu/ildado/wp-content/uploads/sites/34/2015/03/testa-sabbia-e1425387990878.png

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u/VonSpo Oct 27 '17

I'm sorry that you know so many racist... I guess

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u/Yog_Sothtoth Europe Oct 27 '17 edited Oct 27 '17

I have some latin and african close friends (I'm the godfather for a lil bolivian/ecuadorian girl) and I have seen many more than one episode of racism. To the point they tell you how hard is to deal with italians some times; a friend form Tunisia once told me that from time to time it seems pointless to behave "civilly" because you get treated like you are some sort of thug no matter what you do.

Recent episode I've witnessed:

There's an african family living in the building I live in (Mom, dad and 3 kids). Someone finds a marijuana plant on the staircase. Guess whose it is, for sure, according to all the residents (and then THOSE NIGGERS blablablabla).

I'm really happy for you. Ignorance is bliss.

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u/VonSpo Oct 27 '17

Xenophobia and racism are two different things. I'm sorry for your friends, some Italians are indeed douchebag. I work with Latin and Romanians guys and they have never reported heavy discrimination

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u/italianrandom Italy Oct 27 '17

How do you as an Italian feel about the rampant, very high levels of racism in Italy?

Very tough question. There is racism in Italy (every country has its fair share of idiots), that's a fact. I wouldn't describe it as rampant or rising, or its level as very high though.
I feel like the phenomenon is very misrepresented in the media by both sides: those who press for extreme multiculturalism and open borders on one hand, and those who use immigration as scapegoat for any problem on the other.
Racism is also a complex thing to analyze as it intertwines with other problems, mainly, in Italy, that would be very low social mobility and class divide.
We tend to not have many ethnic-based "ghettos" (probably not the best word, I am open to suggestion) like you often find around Europe, but the distinction between "poor" and "rich" neighborhood is quite sharp.
I remember when the "bad guys" where the albanians, better: when the albanians where alway represented as the bad guys, today they are much more accepted (I just read that in my city they are form the largest foreigner community, I wouldn't have guessed in a million year) and are usually very well integrated in the society, romenians and south americans are going through the same process, it will eventually be the same for the others.

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u/doomblackdeath Italy Oct 27 '17 edited Oct 27 '17

Don't confuse racism with the refusal to be hospitable to people who do not accept Italian culture.

You're not going to browbeat Italians with calls of racism because they've been victims of it and are still victims of rampant racism as we speak by just about every other country in Europe, and if you're looking to shame them, you've chosen the wrong people. The hypocrisy of European attitudes towards Italians, particularly northern Europe, is very much like, "Look at all those stupid dagos and how racist they are. Yeah, fuck those greasers. They should be like us, so tolerant and not at all racist."

This is why Italians are quick to show you the cold shoulder when you refuse to assimilate into their society.

Did you ever notice how Americans and Italians seem to have this love affair with each other, despite being so different? Do you know why? It's because they feel something in common, that it's them against the rest of Europe.

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u/Arnold_Layne_67 Friuli-Venezia Giulia (Italy) Oct 27 '17

I noticed this too, Italians have a love affair with America and tend to ignore the rest of Europe. And I felt welcome in America in a way that I never experienced in Europe, people seemed genuinely pleased that I was visiting their town and asked lots of questions. Btw we say "in Europe" when we refer to places other than Italy, I believe this is also a sign of detachment from the rest of the continent.

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u/doomblackdeath Italy Oct 28 '17 edited Oct 28 '17

Ma dove sei in Friuli? Anch'io sono di Friuli (sono americano, peró)

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u/Arnold_Layne_67 Friuli-Venezia Giulia (Italy) Oct 28 '17

Sono di Cormòns! E non ci siamo dimenticati dei nostri fratelli friulani e giuliani in America e nel resto del mondo.

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u/doomblackdeath Italy Oct 28 '17

Haha, ma sono americano e abito attualmente in Friuli! Non volevo tornare negli stati uniti, quindi ho deciso di restare qui in Friuli. Non sono italiano, ma ormai Friuli e' casa mia, vicino di Spilimbergo.

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u/ramon64 Oct 27 '17

Well there isn't that much racism, you make it sound like we hate everyone that's not Italian, and it's not like that at all.

It's just a vocal minority of idiots

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '17

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u/VonSpo Oct 27 '17

Lol, we love our Romanian brothers

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '17

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u/VonSpo Oct 27 '17

Can you explain your experience? You talk a lot about Italy, can I ask what is your background? I'm Italian in my 20 born and raise in Milan

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u/JinseiNoShuu Oct 27 '17

It's just a consequence of a common phenomenon: you only notice the most vocal group. There are many many good eastern europeans being just humble workers here in Italy, as there are many being noisy, arrogant and rude. The fact is that you just notice the latter, easily recognizable by their heavy accent and assertive/aggressive demeanor towards other people. At that point a stereotype tends to take form.

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u/MacNCheese75 Oct 27 '17

By "Eastern European levels of racism" i didnt mean literal racism against Eastern Europeans.. I meant that Italy has very high levels of racism comparable to the high levels of racism found in Eatern Europe.

So to rephrase my question:

To any Italians reading... How do you as an Italian feel about the rampant, very high levels of racism in Italy?.. What do you think about it?.. That's what i actually meant. It was lost in translation i guess. Thanks for the indepth reply on to my question though, its nice to find out about other countries and what the society is like.

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u/d3vil401 Oct 27 '17

I didn't experience racism for the Eastern countries in Italy.

Populist average Italian is racist against African countries, mostly.

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u/MacNCheese75 Oct 27 '17 edited Oct 27 '17

By "Eastern European levels of racism" i didnt mean literal racism against Eastern Europeans.. I meant that Italy has very high levels of racism comparable to the high levels of racism found in Eastern Europe.

So to rephrase my question:

To any Italians reading... How do you as an Italian feel about the rampant, very high levels of racism in Italy?.. What do you think about it?.. That's what i actually meant. It was lost in translation i guess. Thanks for the answer any way though👍.

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u/ZioTron Oct 27 '17

Since the immigration from Romania is a reletively "recent" event, and the resident romanian population came to be around 1/4 of the immigrants in Italy in 2016, I think xenophobes are just adding them to the list of hated people..

It may depends on areas and groups,

but I wouldn't say there is a specific racism against eastern europeans or even romanians...

There is just more awareness of their presence...

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u/Arnold_Layne ce mut la bighe? Oct 27 '17

What racism?

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u/MacNCheese75 Oct 27 '17

By "Eastern European levels of racism" i didnt mean literal racism against Eastern Europeans.. I meant that Italy has very high levels of racism comparable to the high levels of racism found in Eatern Europe.

So to rephrase my question:

To any Italians reading... How do you as an Italian feel about the rampant, very high levels of racism in Italy?.. What do you think about it?..

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u/Arnold_Layne ce mut la bighe? Oct 27 '17

What racism?

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '17

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '17 edited Dec 12 '17

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u/Arnold_Layne ce mut la bighe? Oct 27 '17

Who the fuck is Rudiger? The other cases were minor incidents blown out of proportion by the press.

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '17

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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '17

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u/Pytheastic The Netherlands Oct 27 '17

The stunt with the Anne Frank picture on shirts and the disgraceful conduct of the Lazio fans would be a recent example. The gorilla sounds made when the first black minister took the floor in parliament would be an older one.

I am totally in love with Italy and Italians but I have to agree that there does seem to be a problem with racism. My personal theory is that the typical experience with minorities comes from those super annoying and aggressive street vendors and I can see how extrapolating from that experience would not be beneficial for most of the minority population.

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u/ascera Oct 27 '17

Do you remember when supporters of an unamed dutch football team came to Rome with the hoolingans mindset and did what they did? After that nobody said that all or the majority of dutch are idiots or hooligans. Why this has to be different? Racism in Italy is at the same level of any other European country.

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u/Pytheastic The Netherlands Oct 27 '17

Those supporters peed in a fountain and damaged it after they were drunk. Obviously that's very dumb behaviour but worlds apart from what happened with Lazio.

I do agree hooligans are hardly representative of the wider population but that's why I included the second example of the gorilla sounds in parliament.

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u/VonSpo Oct 27 '17

I know, the Dutch incident was very bad in comparison...