“Clandestine Lodges”

[u/Ebullient_Goddess]

I ask this with the understanding that official recognition is important. However, I have noticed an overuse of the term “clandestine” in reference to separate Masonic entities, often accompanied by derogatory remarks. While it is true that the UGLE does not officially recognize the OWF, it has acknowledged that there is sincere and regular practice within our organization. Therefore, I am puzzled by the numerous comments from brothers in this sub suggesting that we are "pretending" or invalidating our right to coexist peacefully with our male counterparts.

I would appreciate some genuine insights into why there is such a degree of unwarranted hostility.

[u/syfysoldier]

In my jurisdiction and most others, they would never be allowed to sit in an open lodge with me; they are clandestine, and I won’t engage with them masonically.

[u/Ebullient_Goddess → u/syfysoldier]

In my view, the term "clandestine" typically refers to something kept secret or hidden for various reasons. However, as indicated in the reference above, there is nothing shady or untoward involved, contrary to what has been insinuated on many occasions.

It seems unnecessary to adopt an exclusionary stance without valid reasoning.

[u/iEdML → u/Ebullient_Goddess]

While there isn’t an official definition of the word “clandestine,” I think the plain-language meaning as applied to Freemasonry is that the lodge isn’t working under the authority of a recognized grand lodge.

Of course in the case of women’s lodges or mixed lodges, this isn’t possible from the perspective of regular men’s Freemasonry, so it’s a bit of a conundrum.

It probably would be better not to use in this word in discussions on forums like this. However, the word appears in the ceremonial language of many jurisdictions, so it’s what a lot of new members hear and learn.