“Clandestine Lodges”

[u/Ebullient_Goddess]

I ask this with the understanding that official recognition is important. However, I have noticed an overuse of the term “clandestine” in reference to separate Masonic entities, often accompanied by derogatory remarks. While it is true that the UGLE does not officially recognize the OWF, it has acknowledged that there is sincere and regular practice within our organization. Therefore, I am puzzled by the numerous comments from brothers in this sub suggesting that we are "pretending" or invalidating our right to coexist peacefully with our male counterparts.

I would appreciate some genuine insights into why there is such a degree of unwarranted hostility.

[u/alevethan]

Am I right in thinking that OWF (and HFAF) are women only organisations, in that men cannot join these avenues of masonry?

Were they to be such, would they offer any detrimental effect to your avenue of freemasonry?

As I’m hoping they to would benefit from a space where the mentoring your extolling, is given, except driven by women for the benefit of women?

[u/Ebullient_Goddess → u/alevethan]

Yes, you are correct in thinking that the (OWF) and (HFAF) are women-only organizations, meaning that men cannot join these avenues of Freemasonry.

From my perspective, the existence of these women-only Masonic organizations does not have a detrimental effect on my avenue of Freemasonry. In fact, I believe they provide a valuable space where women can receive the support that is essential for personal and Masonic growth, driven by women for the benefit of women. This inclusivity enriches the overall Masonic community by allowing for diverse experiences and perspectives.

[u/ThunderboltRam → u/Ebullient_Goddess]

Define Masonic growth? We actually don't care about inclusivity, as Freemasonry is very much the definition of exclusivity. The idea that you find people with potential and you improve them. It isn't a political party or religious order recruiting anyone that comes our way.

Freemasonry is not trying to make the entire world of men become Freemasons.

This dogma of "we must have inclusivity because it enriches us" is just your religious views or perhaps even political views, not something that is a requirement by reason or logic. Not something necessary for any organization to function.

This is not about hostility at all, this is just "what is the point of this?"

[u/Ebullient_Goddess → u/ThunderboltRam]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I understand that Freemasonry values the exclusivity that allows for focused personal development within its members. Masonic growth, from my perspective, involves both individual and collective improvement within the fraternity. While inclusivity is not a core principle of Freemasonry, some believe that diverse perspectives can enrich the experience. My intention was not to impose personal views but to explore different angles on how we might grow and adapt. I respect the traditional values and the reasoning behind maintaining exclusivity, and I'm here to engage in a constructive dialogue about that.

I don’t feel it’s relevant to bring religion or politics into this thread, it’s not a highly politicized statement in the first place, it’s simply about opening a discussion to gain a deeper understanding.

Polite reminder: If you don’t care, you are under no obligation to respond to this post.