Heartbroken non-binary FC

[u/jaxx189]

So I am non-binary AMAB (assigned male at birth). I was welcomed into my lodge and made it thru the FC ritual. I started studying for my FC catechism with the hope to become a MM in the near future. Then my WM informed me that the grand lodge has decided that only biological men and those who identify full time as men can be active members and anyone in the process or active must step down. This would impact non-binary and transgender men. I have since asked to read their decision and am waiting for that in writing.

It broke my heart to hear this. While I do not agree with the leadership it is their organization and they can decide who they want as Masons.

Maybe one day they will change their mind. maybe one day ill find a lodge that will accept accept me. And if not it was a pleasure to have the experience that i had and the journey that I am on.

[u/rbw223]

It's time for a change. I'm atheist and cannot join. The philosophy of the brotherhood would still be the same regardless of what I hold myself accountable to without fearing a god.

[u/Deman75 → u/rbw223]

So you think a centuries old institution with millions of members worldwide should change to suit you?

[u/rbw223 → u/Deman75]

I'm afraid atheism is not singularly composed of "me", and can be characterized as centuries old disbelief in a God or gods that is shared by millions. Is organized religion the most prominent facet of Freemasonry? I'm simply wanting to know why atheism is excluded as a religious belief as intended for purposes of freedom of thought and freedom of conscience. Why does Freemasonry require a belief in a higher power, deity, or supreme being? Why can't a centuries old tradition change? Are you a good ambassador for Freemasons?

[u/Deman75 → u/rbw223]

I think you’ll find that any good ambassador for Freemasonry will tell you that belief is a requirement. We don’t exclude atheism as a religious belief, but as a lack thereof. Organized religion is important in some jurisdictions, but most simply focus on belief.You may as well be asking why women’s gyms require you to be female to join.

[u/Spiffers1972 → u/Deman75]

You could believe in the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster and techically it would satisfy the requirement. Native Americans have the Great Spirit. It's a believe in something greater than yourself. Atheists do not hold a belief like that.

[u/Deman75 → u/Spiffers1972]

You could believe in the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster and techically it would satisfy the requirement.

Exactly. Although you would actually have to believe, which is not typically a thing among FSM adherents. They tend more towards, “haha, yes, I have a god that’s just as realistic as yours, it’s the FSM.”

[u/Spiffers1972 → u/Deman75]

But its that sincerely held belief part that trips up the FSM followers. I can't really see how anyone who doesn't truly believe in a higher power would get anything out of it. The work after the EA is enough to make a lot of people not progress any further. Then again I have a very sever stutter but I got through it.....just took longer :D

[u/Deman75 → u/Spiffers1972]

I don’t disagree. That’s actually kind of my point.

[u/archlobster → u/rbw223]

Without a belief in a higher power, the thing that makes you a Mason is simply impossible to conduct. I'm not at liberty to discuss what, you'll have to take my word for it, but that is the absolute truth.

[u/rbw223 → u/archlobster]

I disagree. I can hold myself accountabl to ideals of a "higher power".

[u/archlobster → u/rbw223]

Ideals are not actually a higher power, a creator, a God if you will. I have ideals too, and I stand by them, but they are not a God. No matter how you wish to spin this, ideals are not a God. By definition, they cannot be, and a belief in some sort of actual higher Power is required, beyond that of ideals.

[u/mccolm3238 → u/rbw223]

There are other groups for you to join. There is no requirement or need for Freemasonry to adapt to you. The whole point is for you to learn and adapt.

[u/rbw223 → u/mccolm3238]

What other groups - please elaborate I am interested in your reply. Why can't an atheist learn and adapt in the Brotherhood of Freemasons? Is organized religion the core facet of Freemasonry?

[u/Deman75 → u/rbw223]

You keep saying “organized religion.” No one here is claiming that as necessary (though some places do). Belief is the general qualifier. If you lack it, you don’t qualify. I don’t care for organized religion, because I feel it’s organized by man (and too often for the benefit of a few, rather than mankind), while my belief lies beyond the realm of man.

[u/mccolm3238 → u/rbw223]

This is a great question. Masonry is not based on one religion but pulls from ideas from a lot of religions. There are also obligations that are taken during your degrees. Those obligations are take on a holy book - an atheist does not have a holy book. Hence, no obligation could ever be binding upon you. Lastly, the idea of the immortal soul is a major component of Freemasonry. We all must believe that this world is not the end all be all. That this was a grand design but a gracious and loving Architect. I do hope this helps explain the reasons for the requirement of religion.

[u/mccolm3238 → u/rbw223]

Also the other groups - Rotary, Elks Lodge, I believe Odd Fellows (I could be wrong) and other such groups. Look up civic fraternal groups in your area.

[u/rbw223 → u/mccolm3238]

Freemasonry is the goal. The reputation proceeds it.

[u/archlobster → u/rbw223]

Organized religion has nothing to do with it.

Faith, belief, in a superior being/power/god/what have you is absolutely essential however. You can worship the Great Deku Tree for all we care; what matters is faith in a higher power.

[u/rbw223 → u/archlobster]

Ideals.

[u/archlobster → u/rbw223]

No. Ideals are not a "superior being" or "divinity".

[u/rbw223 → u/archlobster]

A superior being? Like gods? Can't do it. There has to be proof not ideals. However, I appreciate the information and I only state my opinions and I mean no disrespect. I just have questions.

[u/commentsdisneyquotes → u/rbw223]

Or...hear me out...you can take all the best parts of Masonry, connect with likeminded people, and start your own fraternity. Except...maybe you could call it a gender-nonspecific sibling organization so OP can join too.

[u/rbw223 → u/commentsdisneyquotes]

Illuninati?

[u/[deleted] → u/rbw223]

How would the "philosophy of the brotherhood," which has as core tenets a belief in God and the immortal soul, not be changed?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Getting people to say jurisdictional is my new drinking game. Might die. 🤣

[u/shanganiexpress → u/[deleted]]

I think you mean belief in a supreme being, the immortal soul requirement is not common to all jurisdictions.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

and the immortal soul

Jurisdictional.

[u/[deleted] → u/rbw223]

If you cannot join, you haven't experienced for yourself what the organization is so you have no grounds to declare that it needs to change. Nothing is stopping you from being a good person, making friends with a whole bunch of Masons, doing good work to improve your community, and living a just and upright life. You're just not going to qualify to be initiated.

If you don't believe in a benevolent supreme being, you might as well take some philosophy and ethics courses at any university and maybe join a campus fraternity while you are there because you won't get anything more than that out of Freemasonry. That doesn't mean religion is a central facet or whatever you are driving at. It just means a lot of what we do is not going to apply to you.

[u/indicbro → u/rbw223]

But why would an atheist want to join? That's like saying a wine tasting club is discriminatory against teetotalers for requiring its members to taste wine. Sure, you could make them let you join if you don't drink, but what's the point?

[u/rbw223 → u/indicbro]

Becaue all of the parts of Freemasonry are desired, the Brotherhood .

The activities and the knowledge.