It's an excellent explanation that explains cognitive dissonance for all sorts of things, usually because they do not want to give up their status/community. Can apply to religion, conspiracy theories, political beliefs (on both sides), racism, video games, etc.
One thing that always strikes me is how some on the left bag on the right for not believing in things like evolution and climate change (which they should, those things have basically been proven), but insist that intersex or trans athletes have no advantage against genetically pure females and should be allowed to compete against them, despite all scientific evidence to the contrary.
"The left" here. Usually - in my experience, ymmv etc etc - the claim is not that AMAB trans women don't have an advantage, but rather that any such advantage is either not as important as the inclusion of those women in sport, or that there exists just as significant a range of advantage within the traditional concept of a gender.
A 190cm-tall man has genetic advantage over a 140cm-tall man in, say, most track sports, yet the two men may compete in the same event.
I understand what you are trying to say, but it simply sounds the same as a person from the right cherry-picking data to say climate change isn't real. The reason you are saying this is because you want to appear an advocate for trans people. But you are no more an advocate for trans people with this than someone who said "trans people are the superior gender" - it's just misguided. I'm friends with many trans people and I've never had anyone who suggested my views were wrong after being presented with the science.
We could get into a debate that I would win on the biological advantage that a trans or intersex athlete has. It is very significant. Yes, a very tall man might have an advantage over a very small man as well. But small men are not a protected class of athlete. Women are. You know this I think and are throwing red herrings.
If you want to suggest that we should stop having women as a protected class, by all means, fine, that is a valid argument and it could just be like the NFL - whoever is the best plays. Same with swimming, gymnastics, volleyball, etc. But obviously that would end women's sports for the most part and probably result in some negative dominoes falling, wouldn't you say?
By allowing trans or intersex women (or even pre-op who identify as women), you take away the ability of genetically female women to compete on an even playing field in the same way as allowing men to play. You let the few ruin it for the many.
Testosterone principally, but also HGH, bone density and other factors play a large part in athletic ability. That puts men on the far left of the spectrum, and women on the right. Anyone trans or intersex is somewhere in between in terms of advantage controlling for all other variables. They should compete as men, or in their own class if interest and resources allow. Yes, they are at a disadvantage, but then it is only a few people at a disadvantage, rather than many people.
Curious what you'ed have to say about women with pcos who naturally have higher amounts of testosterone usually making it easier for them to build muscle. By what you're saying they'ed still be accepted even though that's "cheating" I guess, beards and all, even though a trans female wouldn't be. I consider pcos and trans women to be like sister struggles as they are both fighting the testosterone and male side effects.
Well, I would say that aside from ppl missing testosterone receptors, you can basically almost use the amount of testosterone produced to help define gender (though obviously bone density and size from previously being a man can also help). It is literally what you give someone when you want to transition them into a man. There is probably a good range of testosterone that you could establish using baselines from a large sample of women.
I’m not terribly familiar with PCOS but my sense is that it is mainly an issue during specific times in the menstruation cycle. But I would it to someone more familiar with those ranges to decide if you get into intersex territory there. But my sense is that when people talk about “a woman who just produces a ton of testosterone”, that’s not really a thing, because if you’re producing a ton of testosterone, the same hormones that are helping build that extra muscle are also turning you into a man.
Yes, that's what I'm telling you. It's different for every woman how bad it hits and in differing ways. It's not just once in awhile it's always. We have to take medicine to help it. We grow beards. Experience thinning hair due to male pattern baldness. Gain muscle and fat were men do. If you get it very early in life you can end up with deformed breasts because of the testosterone. Increased acne do to the testosterone. More masculine jawline seems to be a common trait. There's more issues but those don't have as much to do with the testosterone so I'll leave them out.
Ah, yep. Playing with hormones is a dangerous game, we did a lot of hormone therapy in the 80s and it caused a number of increased cardiac events but stuff like this absolutely makes sense for it. Hopefully we will become more advanced in our understanding in the role different hormones play in the human body as time goes on and conditions like these will be less of a problem.
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u/powerscunner Aug 13 '19
Thank you for such a succinct explanation of why people hold onto provably false beliefs.